3 ms·
Ask HN: Failed Startup, unreasonable clients, where do I go from here?
I put it all on the line on a startup that had good traction, but very low revenue per user, and ended up selling it for a pittance when I couldn't meet obligations. In the end I was dead broke.
I know many would say I didn't manage my finances properly, but at the start I was fresh out of college with no marketable skills and at the end I was a competent developer. Importantly I was so frugal I lived under the poverty level the entire time.
I went into consulting, and worked for a client that despite promises always managed to maneuver into only paying subsistence wages.
I got more jobs, but only from more unreasonable clients, and I made the rookie mistake of charging a flat rate for projects. The scope always expands with these clients.
I got smarter and changed the structure of my business after watching this video called F*ck you Pay Me: http://vimeo.com/22053820
It has been working, the response I get from clients is much better, but I still have not been able to break into the $100+ hour market.
I thought I had found the job that would allow me to break out from this cycle of desperation around rent due dates, pay off the debt I accrued with my startup etc... And start running a serious and professional consultancy.
I did a phone interview, and they were excited and I went in to speak to four people, and at that meeting they said they were ready to go and that we could get started right away.
And then nothing. No response to email. Nothing. I feel sort of crushed by the flakiness. I know I am only one good client away from all of this changing, but it feels right now like it's never going to happen.
I was wondering if other developers have had similar experiences. I'm competent at what I do, it gets better, right?
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- blitzen 14y agoThank you for responding. What I have been doing wrong is charging a flat rate for projects that is too low. Then the clients hold the final payment hostage while asking for unending changes. I got smarter in my latest jobs, but they were only very small ones for low money. I have only been earning $15 per hour. I would be incredibly happy to make $50 per hour for 3 months. I think my next best bet is to contact dev shops in my city that have clients already.
- sharemywin 14y agoNot sure what country and/or skillset you have but I would think you could get a job or contract to hire for $30-$50/hr in most of the US.
- danielweber 14y agoThen the clients hold the final payment hostage while asking for unending changes How much of your work did they have at this point? The client should be discouraged from adding more and more work because it delays them getting their website/software/app in their own possession.
- blitzen 14y agoFor one client they had the entirety because they insisted on me making changes to a live production system (I know, crazy) In another case they seemed to be happy to continue using their legacy system until the new one was perfect in their eyes.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- tptacek 14y agoMaybe you could go into a little more detail about how your previous clients managed to weasel out of paying. Maybe you could tell us a little bit more about how you scoped those projects and how you handled contracts and payment terms. It would definitely help if you told us how you sourced those clients. Did you network your way into them, or get them off outsourcing sites? How big were the clients? You're not one good client away from all your problems changing; you're several business model changes away from having a sustainable business that will generate fewer abusive relationships, and, over the long term, the luxury of being picky about your clients.
- blitzen 14y ago> Maybe you could go into a little more detail about how your previous clients managed to weasel out of paying. Expanding scope and holding final payment hostage. > Maybe you could tell us a little bit more about how you scoped those projects and how you handled contracts and payment terms. List of requirements, with 50% before and 50% when done. This was my #1 mistake and I have stopped this. > It would definitely help if you told us how you sourced those clients. Did you network your way into them, or get them off outsourcing sites? Networking. > How big were the clients? Larger side of small business scale. > You're not one good client away from all your problems changing; you're several business model changes away from having a sustainable business that will generate fewer abusive relationships, and, over the long term, the luxury of being picky about your clients. One month at $100+ an hour would take care of all debts, allow me to purchase needed medicine and provide enough runway to only accept quality clients. That is what I meant by that.
- cpncrunch 14y agoI do a fair bit of this sort of contract work. I normally either charge $100/hr or give a fixed price. For project work I normally charge a fixed price, but I make sure I get a reasonably detailed spec before doing this (and I insist on not doing any more work without further pay, unless it's very minor stuff). Note that I've got 20+ years experience, and ALL of my contract work comes through my website (collaborative whiteboard/conferencing software) - normally it is customizing the software to the customer's requirements. It's very difficult just finding this sort of contract work unless you have some way to funnel in new customers. In your case I'd recommend maybe just taking on a full-time on-site contract job.
- hbien 14y agoI was in the exact same boat. I've charged project fees and ended up making under $10/hour. I've also undercharged ($30/hour), have agreed to work weekends on some contracts, and have collected payments that are MONTHS late or never even arrive. It got better. All of the above problems happened because I let it happen (charged too low, not use contracts, always saying yes for fear of losing money). Here's what I did: play the ladder game by increasing your rate slowly after every client/contract, try daily/weekly rates, avoid clients with red flags, use referrals. Read Brennan Dunn's "Double Your Freelancing Rate" and "The Wealthy Freelancer". For me, it wasn't an overnight switch to a new client that made it better. It was a lot of slow changes that built up momentum.