4 ms·

> When a gun is pointed at a living organism and the trigger is pulled, its chances of survival plummet. When a hammer is raised above someone's head and lower

by learc83 14y ago

> When a gun is pointed at a living organism and the trigger is pulled, its chances of survival plummet. When a hammer is raised above someone's head and lowered with force, chances of survival plummet. Guns are a far more useful tool than baseball bats. Guns have a non recreational purposes as functional tools, baseball bats do not. The number of deaths per baseball bat are far higher than the number of deaths per "assault weapon", making baseball bats deadlier by far.

tome 14y ago
> The number of deaths per baseball bat are far higher than the number of deaths per "assault weapon", making baseball bats deadlier by far. Wait, are you really claiming that a baseball bat is deadlier than an assault weapon?
- learc83 14y ago
  Yes, per baseball bat. If you are looking at banning something because it causes deaths. You want to look at how many deaths are caused per item. Reducing the number of items by X will result in Y fewer deaths. Baseball bats kill more people per baseball bat than do "assault weapons". What other reason could you have for banning something other than reducing harm. Looking strictly at the numbers banning baseball bats would prevent more killings than banning "assault weapons".
  - corresation 14y ago
    Baseball bats kill more people per baseball bat than do "assault weapons". What font of imaginary statistics are you pulling this ludicrous claim from? Do you know how many hundreds of millions of baseball bats there are in the United States? If we're discussing the confused, exaggerated stats that originally kicked this off, add in the billions of other "club-like" objects in circulation. You are making absolutely ridiculous claims.
    - nsmartt 14y ago
      Do keep in mind that the parent was specifically referring to assault weapons, which are presumably much more rare than other firearms, and also very rarely used in crime. I have no statistics, and I have no clue how many baseball bat deaths occur annually. I just thought maybe this would be a useful reminder.
      - mindcrime 14y ago
        I haven't looked up the stats lately, but IIRC, the number of times a legally owned actual assault weapon was used in a crime in the US was something like 3 or 4... ever.
        MrMember 14y ago
        It's hard to find definitive statistics on that. If you go looking around you'll see a few cases that pop up. In the early 2000s a police officer (and member of the SWAT team) used his issued MP5 to murder a few people, and sometime in the 70s a police officer found his wife in bed with another man and killed one (or both? I can't remember) of them. The point is, like you said, it's exceedingly rare.
        mindcrime 14y ago
        You're right, the stats on that are somewhat hard to find, or hard to qualify as definitive. I've seen articles that say "NO legally owned fully automatic weapon has ever been used to commit a crime" and I've seen a few articles that say the number is < 10. I don't think I've ever seen anything that even tries to argue that the number is higher than that however. Guncite only comes up with two cases, one of which may one of the same ones you just mentioned: http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcfullau.html http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcfullau.html
        corresation 14y ago
        There is no real definition of what an "assault weapon" is, and few restrict that to only automatic weapon. I would say that an AR-15 is most certainly an assault weapon. It is a high power weapon (ignore the rather ignorant people who fail to understand the difference between a .22 and a .223) designed and built for military purposes. Being automatic fire or not has remarkable little relevance to its deadliness.
  - saraid216 14y ago
    Where are you getting: - The number of baseball bats available, - The number of baseball bat homicides, - The number of assault rifles available, - The number of assault rifle homicides Please provide the actual numbers, and sources. We can't compare H_bat/A_bat to H_rifle/A_rifle without these.

by learc83 14y ago

tome 14y ago

> The number of deaths per baseball bat are far higher than the number of deaths per "assault weapon", making baseball bats deadlier by far. Wait, are you really claiming that a baseball bat is deadlier than an assault weapon?

learc83 14y ago
Yes, per baseball bat. If you are looking at banning something because it causes deaths. You want to look at how many deaths are caused per item. Reducing the number of items by X will result in Y fewer deaths. Baseball bats kill more people per baseball bat than do "assault weapons". What other reason could you have for banning something other than reducing harm. Looking strictly at the numbers banning baseball bats would prevent more killings than banning "assault weapons".
- corresation 14y ago
  Baseball bats kill more people per baseball bat than do "assault weapons". What font of imaginary statistics are you pulling this ludicrous claim from? Do you know how many hundreds of millions of baseball bats there are in the United States? If we're discussing the confused, exaggerated stats that originally kicked this off, add in the billions of other "club-like" objects in circulation. You are making absolutely ridiculous claims.
  - nsmartt 14y ago
    Do keep in mind that the parent was specifically referring to assault weapons, which are presumably much more rare than other firearms, and also very rarely used in crime. I have no statistics, and I have no clue how many baseball bat deaths occur annually. I just thought maybe this would be a useful reminder.
    - mindcrime 14y ago
      I haven't looked up the stats lately, but IIRC, the number of times a legally owned actual assault weapon was used in a crime in the US was something like 3 or 4... ever.
      - MrMember 14y ago
        It's hard to find definitive statistics on that. If you go looking around you'll see a few cases that pop up. In the early 2000s a police officer (and member of the SWAT team) used his issued MP5 to murder a few people, and sometime in the 70s a police officer found his wife in bed with another man and killed one (or both? I can't remember) of them. The point is, like you said, it's exceedingly rare.
        mindcrime 14y ago
        You're right, the stats on that are somewhat hard to find, or hard to qualify as definitive. I've seen articles that say "NO legally owned fully automatic weapon has ever been used to commit a crime" and I've seen a few articles that say the number is < 10. I don't think I've ever seen anything that even tries to argue that the number is higher than that however. Guncite only comes up with two cases, one of which may one of the same ones you just mentioned: http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcfullau.html http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcfullau.html
        corresation 14y ago
        There is no real definition of what an "assault weapon" is, and few restrict that to only automatic weapon. I would say that an AR-15 is most certainly an assault weapon. It is a high power weapon (ignore the rather ignorant people who fail to understand the difference between a .22 and a .223) designed and built for military purposes. Being automatic fire or not has remarkable little relevance to its deadliness.
- saraid216 14y ago
  Where are you getting: - The number of baseball bats available, - The number of baseball bat homicides, - The number of assault rifles available, - The number of assault rifle homicides Please provide the actual numbers, and sources. We can't compare H_bat/A_bat to H_rifle/A_rifle without these.