4 ms·

They agreed to attend meetings when they accepted the job offer. If you aren't capable of doing what is deemed necessary for your job (whether its actually nece

They agreed to attend meetings when they accepted the job offer. If you aren't capable of doing what is deemed necessary for your job (whether its actually necessary or not is a separate question) then maybe you are in the wrong job.

sp332 13y ago
Right, and you shouldn't feel guilty for choosing a job that suits you better.
michaelochurch 13y ago
Did the job offer say "must attend morning meetings"? Some job offers specify work hours and most don't. If the person took a job offer knowing that there would be 7:00 meetings and then didn't show up, then I agree with you. Some job offers include hours so there are no surprises. Many trading firms start at 6:30, for example, and that's fine as long as both parties are clear about expectations ahead of time. If the offer letter or contract specifies hours (rather than some flimsy, shifting-sands "please your boss" social expectation) then people should not commit if they can't meet the professed needs, I agree. However, if we're talking about a typical job where hours are not specified before signing, then you are in the wrong and you should quit while you're behind.
- RestlessMind 13y ago
  > Did the job offer say "must attend morning meetings"? Some job offers specify work hours and most don't. But there is implicit assumption in a job offer that meetings ought to be attended on time. Sometimes, meeting times are decided based on mutual convenience. Sometimes, they are dictated by your boss. Nothing wrong with that.
  - michaelochurch 13y ago
    People can claim "implicit assumptions" all they want. Most rapists believe in an "implicit assumption" that the woman wants to have sex with them. That doesn't make it true. I can't tell if you're trolling or serious, and I'm not sure I even want to know.
    - enraged_camel 13y ago
      Well, you are the one who likened corporate bosses to rapists, so I cannot tell if you are trolling either.
      - michaelochurch 13y ago
        No, I didn't. I was pointing out the ridiculous nature of "implicit assumptions" arguments that can be taken to all sorts of extremes.
        enraged_camel 13y ago
        You basically Godwinned the discussion, dude. Except you used rapists rather than Hitler. There are ways to make your point without resorting to ridiculous hyperboles.
- DrewAllyn 13y ago
  There is a concept of 'normal' and if your sleep cycle is so far out of 'normal' that it interferes with your ability to do 'normal' things, then it is your responsibility to determine if that will be a problem before you accept the job, not the employers. Even in the case of trading that you brought up, if starting at 6:30 is normal in that field, then the employer shouldn't need to bring up in the offer that they expect you to start at 6:30. If the employee is moving to a new field or to a place that has a different corporate culture, it should be their responsibility to find out what 'normal' is.
  - michaelochurch 13y ago
    You opened yourself up here but I'm going to leave it as an exercise to the reader as to what the last three moves look like. I'll give a hint. The second of the three doesn't matter.
- enraged_camel 13y ago
  >>Did the job offer say "must attend morning meetings"? Some job offers specify work hours and most don't. Well, the job offer also did not say "must wear a suit and tie everyday" or "must treat coworkers with courtesy" or any other implicit part of being a working professional in the corporate world. I agree with your original post though.
  - Falling3 13y ago
    Since when is wearing a suit and tie an implicit part of being a working professional?
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
    - enraged_camel 13y ago
      I gave it as an example. The point is that there are many things you have to do everyday - some trivial, some not - that are not going to be spelled out in your offer letter. You can either do them, or find somewhere else to work.

sp332 13y ago

Right, and you shouldn't feel guilty for choosing a job that suits you better.

michaelochurch 13y ago

Did the job offer say "must attend morning meetings"? Some job offers specify work hours and most don't. If the person took a job offer knowing that there would be 7:00 meetings and then didn't show up, then I agree with you. Some job offers include hours so there are no surprises. Many trading firms start at 6:30, for example, and that's fine as long as both parties are clear about expectations ahead of time. If the offer letter or contract specifies hours (rather than some flimsy, shifting-sands "please your boss" social expectation) then people should not commit if they can't meet the professed needs, I agree. However, if we're talking about a typical job where hours are not specified before signing, then you are in the wrong and you should quit while you're behind.

RestlessMind 13y ago
> Did the job offer say "must attend morning meetings"? Some job offers specify work hours and most don't. But there is implicit assumption in a job offer that meetings ought to be attended on time. Sometimes, meeting times are decided based on mutual convenience. Sometimes, they are dictated by your boss. Nothing wrong with that.
- michaelochurch 13y ago
  People can claim "implicit assumptions" all they want. Most rapists believe in an "implicit assumption" that the woman wants to have sex with them. That doesn't make it true. I can't tell if you're trolling or serious, and I'm not sure I even want to know.
  - enraged_camel 13y ago
    Well, you are the one who likened corporate bosses to rapists, so I cannot tell if you are trolling either.
    - michaelochurch 13y ago
      No, I didn't. I was pointing out the ridiculous nature of "implicit assumptions" arguments that can be taken to all sorts of extremes.
      - enraged_camel 13y ago
        You basically Godwinned the discussion, dude. Except you used rapists rather than Hitler. There are ways to make your point without resorting to ridiculous hyperboles.
DrewAllyn 13y ago
There is a concept of 'normal' and if your sleep cycle is so far out of 'normal' that it interferes with your ability to do 'normal' things, then it is your responsibility to determine if that will be a problem before you accept the job, not the employers. Even in the case of trading that you brought up, if starting at 6:30 is normal in that field, then the employer shouldn't need to bring up in the offer that they expect you to start at 6:30. If the employee is moving to a new field or to a place that has a different corporate culture, it should be their responsibility to find out what 'normal' is.
- michaelochurch 13y ago
  You opened yourself up here but I'm going to leave it as an exercise to the reader as to what the last three moves look like. I'll give a hint. The second of the three doesn't matter.
enraged_camel 13y ago
>>Did the job offer say "must attend morning meetings"? Some job offers specify work hours and most don't. Well, the job offer also did not say "must wear a suit and tie everyday" or "must treat coworkers with courtesy" or any other implicit part of being a working professional in the corporate world. I agree with your original post though.
- Falling3 13y ago
  Since when is wearing a suit and tie an implicit part of being a working professional?
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - enraged_camel 13y ago
    I gave it as an example. The point is that there are many things you have to do everyday - some trivial, some not - that are not going to be spelled out in your offer letter. You can either do them, or find somewhere else to work.