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In Seattle, the amount of time the sun is in the sky varies from 8.5 hours to 16 hours across the year. Do you believe we really need 15 hours of sleep in the w

In Seattle, the amount of time the sun is in the sky varies from 8.5 hours to 16 hours across the year. Do you believe we really need 15 hours of sleep in the winter, but can get by on barely 8 in the summer? I don't think our sleep schedules need to vary THAT much for seasonal disaffectance.

nijk 14y ago
Are you familiar with the extreme effect to which sunlight affects human (and other mammals) systems biology?
da_n 14y ago
Gotta feel bad for those Inuit's as well, apparently they should just not sleep for several months of the year.
keypusher 14y ago
Makes sense to me, this is what a lot of mammals do. When food is scarce in the winter, best thing to do is sleep and expend minimal energy. In summer when the day is long and there is good light to see by, be awake and productive.
derefr 14y ago
> Do you believe we really need 15 hours of sleep in the winter, but can get by on barely 8 in the summer? Yes, inasmuch as we "need" sleep at all. There are many species that dramatically shift their sleeping patterns over the course of the year--such as never sleeping during months-long migrations--and come out with no "sleep debt" accrued at all. This lends to a conclusion that the brain really just requests a certain amount of sleep, and is unhappy if it doesn't get it--but it can request less sleep in the first place with no physiological effect.
- stephengillie 14y ago
  How do you account for people dying when kept awake for too long?
  - derefr 14y ago
    I didn't say we don't need sleep. I meant more that putting in some sort of effort that then requires sleep to compensate it is a decision our brain makes (or an adaptation it executes), more like putting debt on a credit card than putting fuel in a gas tank. Build up enough debt and you can go bankrupt (i.e. die), but never build up any debt at all and you'll be fine; you just won't have any of the things you could have that required that extra temporary liquidity/leverage to accomplish. We could probably figure out a drug that would put us into a state where we don't need to sleep, ever--the resulting state just might not be something very much resembling "sentient human consciousness." It might not allow for memory-formation or System 2 analysis, for example, thus making you go through life only relying on the sort of "thinking" you do while dreaming. Animals that don't sleep, or that sleep very little (e.g. horses, at two hours per day) are also likely "stuck" in this state by design. The real question is whether we could get anything productive done in this state, and that might be possible--it seems somewhat to resemble "flow."

nijk 14y ago

Are you familiar with the extreme effect to which sunlight affects human (and other mammals) systems biology?

da_n 14y ago

Gotta feel bad for those Inuit's as well, apparently they should just not sleep for several months of the year.

keypusher 14y ago

Makes sense to me, this is what a lot of mammals do. When food is scarce in the winter, best thing to do is sleep and expend minimal energy. In summer when the day is long and there is good light to see by, be awake and productive.

derefr 14y ago

> Do you believe we really need 15 hours of sleep in the winter, but can get by on barely 8 in the summer? Yes, inasmuch as we "need" sleep at all. There are many species that dramatically shift their sleeping patterns over the course of the year--such as never sleeping during months-long migrations--and come out with no "sleep debt" accrued at all. This lends to a conclusion that the brain really just requests a certain amount of sleep, and is unhappy if it doesn't get it--but it can request less sleep in the first place with no physiological effect.

stephengillie 14y ago
How do you account for people dying when kept awake for too long?
- derefr 14y ago
  I didn't say we don't need sleep. I meant more that putting in some sort of effort that then requires sleep to compensate it is a decision our brain makes (or an adaptation it executes), more like putting debt on a credit card than putting fuel in a gas tank. Build up enough debt and you can go bankrupt (i.e. die), but never build up any debt at all and you'll be fine; you just won't have any of the things you could have that required that extra temporary liquidity/leverage to accomplish. We could probably figure out a drug that would put us into a state where we don't need to sleep, ever--the resulting state just might not be something very much resembling "sentient human consciousness." It might not allow for memory-formation or System 2 analysis, for example, thus making you go through life only relying on the sort of "thinking" you do while dreaming. Animals that don't sleep, or that sleep very little (e.g. horses, at two hours per day) are also likely "stuck" in this state by design. The real question is whether we could get anything productive done in this state, and that might be possible--it seems somewhat to resemble "flow."