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pretty typical coding horror post misunderstands TDD, and make a correct and vital, but fairly obvious point

RossM 18y ago
But he uses such a captivating picture!
mmphosis 18y ago
http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/tdd http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/tdd TDD: Test Driven Development (programming methodology) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Test-driven_development http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Test-driven_development
trjordan 18y ago
I don't understand exactly what you're saying. He's pointing out that TDD fixes bugs that you think might be relevant, but putting your code in front of users finds real bugs. Then, you can fix those, and your software is better for it, since it addresses all the cases your user actually sees. I'll admit we don't practice TDD where I currently work, so I might be missing something. He even says that there are many other reasons for using TDD, and his criticism here is only towards it as a bug-fixing tool. Given that, how is this not a valid critique?
- stcredzero 18y ago
  TDD is not about just catching bugs. TDD is to enable you to change your mind about architecture. If you have a complete suite of unit tests, it's much easier to do major refactorings with confidence. As far as catching bugs go, real users have no substitute. But you leverage the knowledge of real users by capturing their examples and creating automated tests from them. There's no sense in wearing out human resources by having them do the same things over and over.
  - daleharvey 18y ago
    agreed (kinda) TDD has nothing to do with fixing bugs, bugs are where the program differs from its specification, TDD is about creating that specification, in a way that can be tested.
raganwald 18y ago
He said TDD isn't any good at fixing bugs, and the loud retort is that it isn't any good at fixing bugs. How is this misunderstanding TDD? If anything, I suggest he understands it and also understands that his readership don't understand it and he's cautioning them against misusing it. All in all, I'd say the people who say that TDD isn't about fixing bugs are in violent agreement with Jeff.

RossM 18y ago

But he uses such a captivating picture!

http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/tdd http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/tdd TDD: Test Driven Development (programming methodology) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Test-driven_development http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Test-driven_development

trjordan 18y ago

I don't understand exactly what you're saying. He's pointing out that TDD fixes bugs that you think might be relevant, but putting your code in front of users finds real bugs. Then, you can fix those, and your software is better for it, since it addresses all the cases your user actually sees. I'll admit we don't practice TDD where I currently work, so I might be missing something. He even says that there are many other reasons for using TDD, and his criticism here is only towards it as a bug-fixing tool. Given that, how is this not a valid critique?

stcredzero 18y ago
TDD is not about just catching bugs. TDD is to enable you to change your mind about architecture. If you have a complete suite of unit tests, it's much easier to do major refactorings with confidence. As far as catching bugs go, real users have no substitute. But you leverage the knowledge of real users by capturing their examples and creating automated tests from them. There's no sense in wearing out human resources by having them do the same things over and over.
- daleharvey 18y ago
  agreed (kinda) TDD has nothing to do with fixing bugs, bugs are where the program differs from its specification, TDD is about creating that specification, in a way that can be tested.

raganwald 18y ago

He said TDD isn't any good at fixing bugs, and the loud retort is that it isn't any good at fixing bugs. How is this misunderstanding TDD? If anything, I suggest he understands it and also understands that his readership don't understand it and he's cautioning them against misusing it. All in all, I'd say the people who say that TDD isn't about fixing bugs are in violent agreement with Jeff.