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Statements like this are a serious matter, and the truth or falsehood of them is left for the courts to decide: until then, presumption of innocence rules the d

Statements like this are a serious matter, and the truth or falsehood of them is left for the courts to decide: until then, presumption of innocence rules the day. Barring that, the hypothetical case you mention is essentially indistinguishable from the actual case being discussed.

kleiba 13y ago
Yet the roles of the proponents are clearly set in the article: he's the good guy, she's evil girl. My question is not about whether this is actually the case. My question has been called hypothetical (and rightfully so), thus let me make it clear that I'm not actually talking about these very people, but just about the described events in terms of an abstract storyline. I think that what we make of a story like that is very much influenced by how we perceive the characters. Many of us will, for instance, be outraged by the actions of this girl - how could she! Now, since we're putting reality aside, what if a week later, there was another newspaper article, this time reporting the conviction of the guy from the first article. This would then perhaps change our perception of the roles. That was what I was after with my question, and whether that would change the way we assess the girl's actions. I was hoping for a (perhaps more philosophical) discussion, but that clearly didn't work you. It is now clear to me that I should have made a stricter separation between the abstract events and the concrete people involved. I never meant to accuse the guy (or the girl for that matter) of anything, I apologize for any misunderstandings that might have given such an impression. Other than that, I've been basically asked "why bother about hypotheticals", so it seems that not a lot of people find such a thought experiment as interesting as I do.
- illuminate 13y ago
  "This would then perhaps change our perception of the roles. That was what I was after with my question, and whether that would change the way we assess the girl's actions. ... Other than that, I've been basically asked "why bother about hypotheticals", so it seems that not a lot of people find such a thought experiment as interesting as I do." We all have filters (of varying weight and severity) set up in place to check veracity of the facts streaming into our heads. I don't think we've all "made up our minds", but I'd rather not devote much more effort and headspace to this until any new news comes in. The problem isn't that people necessarily take presented facts as reality, myself, I consciously go through your process for every article I read. I suppose I'm downplaying your posting it here because I find outward discussion of a situation with limited but fairly striking facts from fairly trustworthy sources (multiple court records). All is possible to be skewed, but I don't have the energy to call up the "attacker" and the "victim" and perform independent research in the matter. Does that make sense?

kleiba 13y ago

Yet the roles of the proponents are clearly set in the article: he's the good guy, she's evil girl. My question is not about whether this is actually the case. My question has been called hypothetical (and rightfully so), thus let me make it clear that I'm not actually talking about these very people, but just about the described events in terms of an abstract storyline. I think that what we make of a story like that is very much influenced by how we perceive the characters. Many of us will, for instance, be outraged by the actions of this girl - how could she! Now, since we're putting reality aside, what if a week later, there was another newspaper article, this time reporting the conviction of the guy from the first article. This would then perhaps change our perception of the roles. That was what I was after with my question, and whether that would change the way we assess the girl's actions. I was hoping for a (perhaps more philosophical) discussion, but that clearly didn't work you. It is now clear to me that I should have made a stricter separation between the abstract events and the concrete people involved. I never meant to accuse the guy (or the girl for that matter) of anything, I apologize for any misunderstandings that might have given such an impression. Other than that, I've been basically asked "why bother about hypotheticals", so it seems that not a lot of people find such a thought experiment as interesting as I do.

illuminate 13y ago
"This would then perhaps change our perception of the roles. That was what I was after with my question, and whether that would change the way we assess the girl's actions. ... Other than that, I've been basically asked "why bother about hypotheticals", so it seems that not a lot of people find such a thought experiment as interesting as I do." We all have filters (of varying weight and severity) set up in place to check veracity of the facts streaming into our heads. I don't think we've all "made up our minds", but I'd rather not devote much more effort and headspace to this until any new news comes in. The problem isn't that people necessarily take presented facts as reality, myself, I consciously go through your process for every article I read. I suppose I'm downplaying your posting it here because I find outward discussion of a situation with limited but fairly striking facts from fairly trustworthy sources (multiple court records). All is possible to be skewed, but I don't have the energy to call up the "attacker" and the "victim" and perform independent research in the matter. Does that make sense?