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Teacher 'powerless' to stop ex-girlfriend's cyberstalking
- jimworm 13y agoMale teachers are probably the most vulnerable targets to such attacks. If you're male and a teacher, it's probably best to use a different name in all non-professional activities (said only partially in jest). That said, he should've announced his name on a press release associated with this news story and took advantage of the Google juice of the mainstream press (EDIT: oh he did).
- antonapa 13y agoI find it quite disturbing that this is seen as such a terrible situation. You do know that there are several porn sites dedicated to ruining the lives of ex-girlfriends? When the victim is male, suddenly this justifies news articles and a heated discussion. I feel terrible for the guy, but this is gender-biased hypocrisy. The comments on the article considering "if it was the other way around he'd be in jail" are so out of touch with reality that it hurts my brain.
- redthrowaway 13y agoHow you can possibly view this as "gender-biased hypocrisy" astounds me. There's a person being stalked, slandered, and having their career ruined by a vindictive and determined person of questionable mental and emotional stability. It would be the exact same story if the victim was female. >You do know that there are several porn sites dedicated to ruining the lives of ex-girlfriends? Like what, gfrevenge? There's a massive difference in scale and severity between posting nude photos and videos of an ex online without their permission, and accusing them of child molestation and attempting to ensure they can never find work in their field again. It's the difference between throwing a rock through someone's window, or doing the same with a molotov cocktail.
- Skoofoo 13y agoI agreed with your first paragraph, but the second one surprised me. Your comparison does not apply to everyone. Many people would much prefer to be hit with baseless accusations and rumors rather than have footage of their most intimate moments be immortalized for public access.
- wwwwwwwwwwww 13y agoagreed. men get carried away with our bullshit and forget that images are attached to people. women dont forget that and its much shittier for them. as a man i know we suck.
- illuminate 13y agoBroad based claims really help nobody, man or woman.
- aaron695 13y agoWhen I first saw this on Reddit I though a similar thing. It (unsurprisingly) was getting a disproportionate amount of coverage compared to similar things the other way round. Reddit is quite dark when you read between the lines on many of the things and issues they take up.
- betterunix 13y agoDisproportionate? Just the other day, the New York Times linked to this: http://betabeat.com/2013/05/revenge-porn-holli-thometz-criminal-case/ http://betabeat.com/2013/05/revenge-porn-holli-thometz-crimi...
- mistercow 13y ago>You do know that there are several porn sites dedicated to ruining the lives of ex-girlfriends? When the victim is male, suddenly this justifies news articles and a heated discussion. How can you possibly have missed all of the news articles and heated discussion about revenge porn sites? Both situations deserve attention.
- xkcdfanboy 13y agoCyberskanking is a new breed of social terrorism. And now, Bob with the weather...
- jacquesm 13y agoWe deal with psychos like this on a daily basis and it is the one reason I'd be more than happy to quit my 15 year stint as operator of an online community. It is absolutely incredible, the kind of viciousness some people will direct at those they claim to once have loved.
- pyre 13y agoThey've obviously got some issues that require professional help. This doesn't seem that far off from stalkers who feel like they are part of a person's life, and turn nasty when rejected (even though they never were a part of the person's life).
- jacquesm 13y agoThat's exactly what they are, only this is the online variety. The hardest problem of all for me in dealing with this is that you simply can't reason with these people.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- ansible 13y agoThe only thing you can do is ignore them. Become a stone wall. If the stalker can't seem to get any reaction out of you, he/she will eventually get bored and start stalking someone else instead.
- duzins 13y agoWon't help you get a job though.
- illuminate 13y agoYou're confusing psychopaths for bullies.
- pyre 13y ago
- stackedmidgets 13y agoMore likely his haircut, or some other negative quality. Name changes are cheap, at least in America. Change your name, get a new haircut, and voila, you can begin building your new identity. This isn't even an issue with technology, per se. The guy's not powerless, he just has too much faith in courts. Why else would you be fool enough to sue your psycho ex-girlfriend? Has anyone ever said "boy, I'm glad I got into a legal entanglement with that person who hates me, because it sure resolved the grudge!" No. Going to the courts is a fantastic method for elongating a momentary hatred to a lifelong vendetta. Also, this is a culture clash. If you banged an American girl as an itinerant teacher in 1850, her brothers and her father might have just tracked you down to shoot you. Forget about cyberstalkin' -- they would've just stalk-stalked you and killed you like a possum. Malaysia's sexual mores in 201* != America's 201* mores.
- Tichy 13y agoWhat if she discovers his new name after the change? Also, breaking into houses is no problem, just get a new house?
- aray 13y agoAren't name changes in the US a matter of public record?
- illuminate 13y agoJudges are also known to deny them, as many trans-individuals have found out to their dismay.
- nandemo 13y ago> Malaysia's sexual mores in 201* != America's 201* mores. Can you elaborate? What does that have to with the article? Are you implying that in Malaysia is normal or acceptable for a woman to cyberstalk a guy like this?
- jinfiesto 13y agoHe's implying that the teacher's relationship may have not been ok by Malaysian standards. She might be considered "damaged goods" now (note: I know literally nothing about Malaysian culture.) Here in the States, that might have been dealt with through street justice. That nobody really cares about that sort of thing in the US anymore doesn't mean that it's not a consideration abroad. Her romantic prospects in her home country might be potentially destroyed. That's all speculation; and I'm not, of course, justifying her actions.
- whyleyc 13y agoSurely this is the wrong approach - instead of trying to remove every post about him online (ultimately impossible) he could employ a company to produce content with enough SEO juice to outrank everything else when searching for his name.
- thejosh 13y agoOr just get more media awareness for this so when someone googling his name this article will show first.
- newman314 13y agoGood luck trying to out SEO cbc.ca. What you suggest might be possible if the sites were low PR etc., but now that it's a news story, the Streisand effect pretty much negates that approach.
- wjnc 13y agoThe point is that he IS pursuing that strategy and that cbc.ca is a positive google for his name.
- mmariani 13y agoThat's true. Plus the fact he is an unemployed teacher who probably has no money to spare on SEO. However, I think this story at least will help a little getting a new job. I guess he will certainly put a link to this piece on his resume.
- Sven7 13y agoOr he could just wait for something like this to happen to someone within Google. I am pretty sure policies will change quick. I like how they can hide behind some nuanced BS when someone's life is getting ruined.
- pyre 13y agoI'm surprised that he even got a response from Google. I thought that the only way to get to a person was to post on HN. </sarcasm> ;-)
- mikestew 13y agoOne can't do much about comments on websites, but man, secure your machines. I'm willing to bet that "hacking his email" consisted of firing up his Windows machine, opening the account with no password, and starting Outlook. Same for the nude photos. Yeah, yeah, "trust" and all that. I don't think my own wife of nearly 20 years has spent more than ten minutes total logged onto one of my accounts on any machine in our home. I trust her, she just doesn't need to, she has her own account. Random chick I've been dating who displays just a little bit of psycho bitch from time to time? Yeah, that machine gets locked down with a high-entropy password and she gets guest privileges.
- illuminate 13y agoUnless you've got full-drive encryption going on, I don't know what "accounts" have to do with actual security if they've stolen your computer and have physical access to the drive.
- girvo 13y agoPhysical access = game over, as a general rule. Full disk encryption can help, and would stop someone like this woman, however.
- cjg 13y agoAny physical access means game over to a competent attacker. You say hard disk encryption? I say evil maid attack.
- zorbo 13y agoevil maid attack wouldn't have worked in this situation, since she broke in and stole the laptop. I also doubt she has the know-how to perform an evil maid attack. Enabling a BIOS boot password would make it more difficult to stealthily perform an evil maid attack. Finally, "no security is perfect" is not an excuse for having no security.
- cjg 13y agoI was talking about the general situation - the grandparent post talks about his wife's access for example. I also said a competent attacker. Also, I wasn't saying that disk encryption is worthless. If your laptop gets stolen by someone who has not previously had access to your computer (or confiscated at a border) then your data is secure. I agree with your point about the BIOS password.
- bobsy 13y agoI would hope that this and other news outlets picking up the story would carry enough juice to help push the offending content from the first page. Its a terrible story. Can he not submit take down notices to individual websites?
- chc 13y agoHe could throw around nastygrams, but those don't have the force of law behind them. To get the law on his side, he'd need to actually go through the legal system in the home country of the site in question.
- girvo 13y agoContempt of court, given jail time, skips the country and keeps going. Christ, what are you supposed to do? :/
- DocG 13y agochange name and life
- DoubleMalt 13y agoIn times of widespread face recognition software this might prove futile ... and raise even more suspicions.
- DocG 13y agoOf course he should keep away from social accounts. Other than that, I doubt she would find him. Basically like new identity. It would help to clean his name for future employees. Also, a really common name would help probably.
- prawn 13y agoOr even one held by someone already popular. "Students, meet your new teacher LeBron James." Googling "lebron james teacher" shows a few basketball instructional videos, so that's a start. And there are Vancouver articles about LBJ too, so that covers "lebron james vancouver"...
- GhotiFish 13y agoI hit the jackpot there, I just happened to have such a name when I was born.
- pyre 13y agoWidespread facial recognition didn't identify the Boston bombers. So long as he resists the need to post many photos of himself publicly, and avoids social networking sites, he should be relatively safe.
- DocG 13y agoHe should learn to secure his online doings and then create new everything. Also, should keep away from social accounts. Name change would really help and if kept quiet, zeros harasser's work. It's not about whats right, it's just the easiest way.
- olivier1664 13y agoI'm a little surprised the article give names and photos of the ex-girlfriend.
- eropple 13y agoI'm not. She was found to have committed a crime, it's public record. And she's not a minor.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- awjr 13y agoI'm not sure why he hasn't changed his name.
- DanBC 13y ago"When did you qualify? Where did you qualify? Can you give us your details for the criminal records vetting?" Teachers are qualified (in his original name); registered (in his original name); referenced (in his original name); and vetted (in his original name).
- pyre 13y agoTrue, but going by a different name may be enough to get past the "What if a parent Google's his name" hurdle that may be one of the reasons for not hiring him.
- illuminate 13y agoLiability-concerned administrators would not be comforted by someone changing their name to avoid molestation claims.
- scotty79 13y agoCan't you update all the revlevant docs that prove that you did all those things to your new name?
- illuminate 13y agoHow many times should he have to change his name? Psychopaths are tenacious and it wouldn't stop the problem.
- stedaniels 13y agoThe manager of liarsandcheaters.com seems like a nasty piece of work.
- tripzilch 13y agoYeah, I heard about sites like those before, often one is welcome to pay to have their info removed, similar to those "check to see if a registered criminal lives in this neighbourhood" sites. I wanted to check if this was the case--they usually hint at it pretty clearly, as it's their main source of income--but it appears the domein is currently parked (or perhaps the news article listed it wrong and it's spelled differently, I don't care to figure it out).
- tripzilch 13y ago... found it, liarscheatersrus.com/contact-us conveniently links to "internet reputation control.com" and "remove names.com", both sites that also conveniently name liarsandcheatersrus.com plus a short list of very similar SEO-happy domains. Wouldn't surprise me if they're all operated by the same people, or at least split the money people pay to have their names cleared.
- gadders 13y agoBrandYourself.com should do some pro-bono work and get themselves some good PR :-)
- tripzilch 13y agoslight problem--how would they reap the PR? it'd have to be an anonymous testimonial from the guy, nor is it a great success story you'd tell many people about and recommend them ...
- frozenport 13y agoIs there a way to legally change your identity, similar to the witness protection program?
- EliRivers 13y agoYou can simply go by another name in many countries, without having to tell any formal authority. In the UK, if you want a piece of paper to go with it (perhaps for applying for a new passport or the like), you can get a statutory declaration or a deed poll; I know someone who needed one to get his bank account details changed and he literally dropped in unannounced over a lunchtime at a local lawyer's office to bang one out. Of course, if the perpetrator discovers this, they can just start again using the new name.
- Zikes 13y agoBut what about credentials? Any degrees or certifications would have to be re-issued, and past employers that might be called for reference would only know him by his current name.
- EliRivers 13y agoDidn't seem to bother him. He just has the degree/certificate in his old name, and his paperwork showing the name change. It's still quite common in the UK for women to change their name when they get married and they don't seem to have any problems of this nature.
- Zikes 13y agoWell, I think the key reason for the name change in this situation is to completely remove the old name from consideration. Having any papers referencing the old name brings up exactly the same issue, whereby a potential employer would say "oh, their name used to be Clayworth? I wonder what I can find about that on Google..."
- kleiba 13y agoHere's a thought experiment: What if some guy actually were a child molester, a pedophile, or something from the list of things mentioned in the article. Then one day, his girlfriend finds out about it. And she starts an internet campaign like that -- not because she wants to warn others, but just for personal reasons like the girl from the article. Would that change how you feel about an internet "smear" campaign like that, the difference obviously being that it's not defamation but facts? EDIT: Since I'm getting downvoted already, I'd like to add that I don't want to imply that the above is my opinion (nor that it isn't). I'm just genuinely interested in the truthfulness of the statements posted by the girl is a factor relevant to people's judgment of what she's doing. It is completely hypothetical (but that's often the nature of thought experiments).
- J_Darnley 13y agoNo it wouldn't. It would be just as bad. If a theoretical girlfriend has knowledge of that, she should go to the police and let them and the courts ruin a man's life, regardless of whether it is true.
- kleiba 13y agoThanks for your reply.
- tripzilch 13y agoYou're getting downvoted not just because before your edit it did actually seem very much like that is in fact your opinion, but also because it's a very stupid question. You're asking about a ridiculous hypothetical situation where a person would be guilty of all the things she smears him with (check the articles), a situation where you ask the opinion of random onlookers to imagine they are somehow magically 100% certain of his guilt as a fact, yet this person is somehow not convicted. I call troll. Maybe not even on purpose. If you have to qualify your question with "I am just genuinely interested ...", I don't think I ever used that phrase outside of circumstances where I was purposefully trolling.
- 13y ago
- aaron695 13y agoCan we all remember that being murdered by your spouse or ex is probably an order of magnitude more likely than this, purely from the fact this is making the news rounds where as generally you'll mostly not even hear of a murder by an ex in another state. That's not to say this isn't interesting from a SEO or how do we live in a world where information cannot be removed once it's out there perspective. Or even how information attacks are possible. But if you're getting up in arms about this personally it's a good reason why you shouldn't read the news because this is less likely than being murdered and that I doubt you'd worry much about that.
- pyre 13y agoAre you suggesting that injustices only matter depending on their statistical likelihood to happen to me (or you) personally? For example, I shouldn't care about a serial killer murdering strippers because I'm not, nor ever intend to be a stripper?
- zarify 13y agoWell you never know what you'll be into when you're old and senile... (obviously referring to the stripping part, not the stripper murdering ;P)
- illuminate 13y ago" this is less likely than being murdered and that I doubt you'd worry much about that." Stalkers are more likely than most to murder the source of their obsession.
- anxx 13y agoThis is my worst nightmare. I had a fairly recent being-trashed encounter and it was the worst month of my life. But thank god it was offline. Made me quite a bit more paranoid about photos, online accounts (closed all), etc. I can't imagine what this must feel like. There really needs to be better legislation for victims.
- INTPenis 13y agoI don't understand why we emphasize this article when many women deal with stalking daily. Why is this particular teachers story different? Just last week I had to tell a female co-worker that unfortunately I don't know how to stop someone from following her on Spotify. It's a daily occurance, to so many women. And it's very uncomfortable.
- smky80 13y agoHaving someone actively trying to ruin your life might be a little more uncomfortable than being followed on Spotify? Just a thought.
- yaix 13y agoGreat username for somebody making such a comment. Also, "being followed on Spotily" != "having your private and professional life destroyed" Just saying.
- praxulus 13y agoThere are plenty of good examples you could have used. That was not one of them.
- PavlovsCat 13y agoIt doesn't say her age anywhere. He's 35, she looks like she could be rather young. It also says "after they split up" which strikes me as saying nothing; who broke up with whom, how and why? Oh, and "dated for several months", does that mean "had sex with, while she was under the impression it was serious when he knew all along it wasn't for him"? Mind you, even IF any of those speculations hold any truth, that still wouldn't excuse her way of dealing with that (though it would excuse kicking him in the nuts with gusto though, in my books). But still, that this story is one-sided can't be helped, that it has missing pieces I consider vital makes me suspicious enough to not really care either way.
- PavlovsCat 13y agoWOW. For fucking shame.
- pyre 13y agoWhat's for shame? You're post boils down to: "What she did was wrong, but I don't know if he did something significantly less wrong to her, so I can't be bothered to care at all." or "Sure she murdered him, but the article doesn't tell us if he looked her the wrong way or not, so I can't be bothered to care about this murder."
- PavlovsCat 13y agoThat I got downmodded within minutes by some clown who didn't feel it necessary to, you know, peruse the keyboard. Couldn't help to notice how pathetic that is. And no, I simply think context and chronology matters. If I break into a house, does that justify the house owner strapping me down and torturing me for weeks? No, but it's a crucial detail. If you hurt someone who you think can't fight back, and then they do, that's a different story than a random attack out of nowhere.
- pyre 13y agoIt still doesn't justify the attack, so I fail to see how it is material. If you thought that (for example) breaking into someone's house justified weeks of torture, then the "breaking into someone's house" part would be relevant. If it doesn't than it's a detail with little importance. There may be some importance in a trial or at sentencing, but this is not a court, and you a not a judge holding sway over his ex-girlfriend's punishment/future.
- vorg 13y ago> "Little did I know, this was just the beginning of this campaign of harassment and cyberstalking," said Clayworth Although the ex-girlfriend was responsible for the initial breakin, email spoofing, and posting of pictures, does the teacher know for sure she's really responsible for the continuing campaign of harassment and cyberstalking. Perhaps someone else is taking advantage of the opportunity for anonymity by supplementing her efforts. Some people who harass do it anonymously, keeping themselves well hidden. This often also entails watching and monitoring the target closely. When they do say something publicly, it will have two possible meanings so it's all deniable. Often, they'll use their positions of influence to implicitly encourage others to do the hands-on dirty work of slagging publicly.
- DanBC 13y agoYes, we can easily create a slew of alternative explanations. But the simplest explanation - something that's happened many many times to many people - is that a single person is harassing this guy. The problem with creating alternative explanations is that some people will start saying things like "Maybe he did something to cause this? Maybe he could have done something different?" And that's a problem, because stalking and erotomania are genuinely scary. It's hard to believe when you're the person that it's happening to, and it's hard to believe for people outside it, but that's why we should be careful not to pin blame onto the victim.
- vorg 13y ago> It's hard to believe when you're the person that it's happening to, and it's hard to believe for people outside it, but that's why we should be careful not to pin blame onto the victim. That's true, I'm not disputing that. But it's also hard for many people to believe that certain types of people exist who'll hide themselves, watch others, and run a smear campaign without ever showing themselves.
- illuminate 13y ago"does the teacher know for sure she's really responsible for the continuing campaign of harassment and cyberstalking. Perhaps someone else is taking advantage of the opportunity for anonymity by supplementing her efforts." The courts believe otherwise and she cops to the efforts.
- CoryG89 13y agoPeople try to paint these types of things as being a problem unique and newly introduced with the advent of the Internet. In truth, there have always been ways to slander and defame someone just because you don't like them. You can always post an anonymous editorial in the paper about someone, or make an anonymous phone call to DHR or child services slandering someone. It's not just 'cyberstalking'. There has never been much recourse for victims of slander.
- LeeHunter 13y agoBut surely it is very different when you can post an endless river of vicious comments in thousands of different places, have those comments searchable by anyone, and then have the world's most trusted search engines compile those comments in a way that suggests that they are the most relevant for a persons name. And I don't think that anyone could ever have posted an "anonymous editorial" in a paper. Newspaper content is written by staff (or wire services) and letters to the editor are curated.
- CoryG89 13y agoYou can submit an editorial to any newspaper in the world anonymously, whether they choose to publish any of the material contained therein would be up to the newspaper and whether they though there was any validity (or more likely, public interest) in the editorial.
- saintx 13y agoGoing on a media counteroffensive is probably better than trying to change his name and experiencing backlash in the form of the Streisand effect. People would think that he had something to hide, which he doesn't. Going to the press shows humility, which in this case is the antidote to shame.
- wwwwwwwwwwww 13y agopeople will think he has something to hide no matter what. making decisions according to what people think ends up lol - you end up making decisions based on the worst things because those people often have the loudest and strongest opinion. based on what, i don't know, probably because liberal society worships youth and the brash cockiness associated with it. if people are thinking the worst things about you, should you always be having to defend yourself? what about your own life, what if there are people in it that you're trying to protect who've been very hurt and just need safety and privacy? going to the press shows that in his experience, drawing attention to something has been mostly positive. this is not everyone's experience. the press is responsible for the streisand effect in the first place. i don't see how bowing down before this pressure is humble, although it is probably smart to be media-savvy, not everyone can afford the mental expense. people are different - as if theres only one way to react to a thing like this, as if the style of the reaction says anything about anything. true humility would require that this person not care about his career any more, accept that probably he's getting a rightful punishment for his moral degradation by dating what seems like a much younger woman in a country where he has a great deal of power, who is not pulling these attacks out of thin air, in a context where, as one commentor says, a 'westerner and crazy chinese' is common - and move on. it's well known among asians that whites look old to them, and that asians look young to white people. white people have the luxury of not having to care what asian people think, and so this is not common knowledge to them and might explain some ignorance on this thread.
- wwwwwwwwwwww 13y agomy grandfather was a good republican, a mayor of a small town in florida in fact. he raised me to not talk about politics and religion because it's not polite. he said just to do a good job and that would be enough. obviously his times are over if this is the discussion we are having to have and i think that says a lot about this new radical experiment in social relations that the internet has brought about.
- S_A_P 13y agoWhy do people keep naked pictures of themselves? That is a bad idea, and doubt that there is anything good that can come from it. Just sayin. Now- looking at this girls postings, it appears that most were to memegenerator, and other forums that I wouldnt exactly give much credibility to. I guess I just dont see how this could cost someone a job. Arrest records, news stories, etc maybe but a meme generator picture???
- mistercow 13y ago>and doubt that there is anything good that can come from it. For a couple where neither person is crazy, plenty of good comes from it in the form of sexual intimacy. The fact is that if you're in a long term relationship with someone, trust them, and get close to them, you're going to share details of your life with them that could be used against you. Nobody is so clean that they are immune to this - the only limiting factors are the intelligence of the scorned lover, and the degree of their psychosis.
- illuminate 13y ago"Why do people keep naked pictures of themselves? That is a bad idea, and doubt that there is anything good that can come from it. Just sayin." People have been doing this since recorded history. Just sayin'. Victim-blaming is victim blaming and not helpful.
- vijayr 13y agoThis is unbelievable - what the hell does she gain by this? She not only ruined his life, but hers too. Now her pic is online, complete with what she did. She is on the run from Malaysian authorities. All of this, for what? This is beyond crazy.
- illuminate 13y ago"what the hell does she gain by this" Control, ownership, poweer.
- Millennium 13y agoYour last sentence almost certainly contains the answer to your question. It seems to me that this would be the next step: work on building a case to have her committed. That's not an easy thing to do even in the best of cases, but she seems to be cooperating (knowingly or otherwise).
- GhotiFish 13y agoMaybe that was the correct answer the first time. That's a dangerous pattern of behavior. Setting restraining orders and putting up barricades isn't the answer much of the time. My heart goes out to this guy, he did what anyone would do. "I just want this to be over" and acted defensively. A life lesson, as I see it: Offense over defense. Get her in a room with a moderator and a camera, reason with her/use recording as grounds to get her committed.
- vijayr 13y agoI wonder if people (like that webmaster of liarsandcheaters etc) would sympathize more if the genders were reversed. Also, it is sad that Google wouldn't remove these pages from their index, even after a court order. They spend so much time policing the DMCA stuff etc, but unwilling to spend a few minutes helping this guy out.
- GhotiFish 13y ago