5 ms·

San Francisco is one of the only places I've ever commuted where the question isn't if you'll step in human shit, but when. The quality of my workday usually be

San Francisco is one of the only places I've ever commuted where the question isn't if you'll step in human shit, but when. The quality of my workday usually begins with "did I get a face full of hot, evaporating urine and avoid a pile of shit on the way here today? no? gonna be a good day." The people that live near my office on the ground level have put up "please don't defecate near our door, this leads right into our living room" signs. Good luck getting anybody to care. Nobody cares. I bet if someone dropped a deuce in front of a New York bodega, there'd be a dozen locals competing to rinse it off. I love New Yorkers. Tough as nails and been through some shit, man, and you really get that in the culture. Walk around late enough in the same neighborhood and appear vulnerable and see what happens, too. If you stuck to the various places that we keep squeaky-clean for tourists, that's why you didn't notice.

enraged_camel 13y ago
What is it about San Francisco that causes its denizens to defecate on the streets? I've visited it as a tourist many times, and have walked around extensively in neighborhoods such as Nob Hill, Fisherman's Wharf, Union Square, Financial District, and Inner/Outer Richmond. Never stepped on human shit, much less dog shit.
- tiredofcareer 13y ago
  You basically just listed five awesome and/or touristy neighborhoods and a tourist destination, that's why. Most startup types here commute to SoMa, and, well...
- tptacek 13y ago
  Homelessness.
  - w1ntermute 13y ago
    SF needs to do what NYC did in the 90s. Bring in someone like Giuliani who will really crack down on these issues. That's basically impossible though with all the liberals in SF.
    - _delirium 13y ago
      I'm not sure I'd call NYC's policy less liberal overall, though it's different. It puts considerably more effort (and money!) into providing housing in the first place: about 5% of NYC's population is housed in public housing, versus about 1% for SF. NYC's homeless shelters have also been somewhat more effective at transitioning people off the streets and into apartments, though with recent budget cuts some of the programs that were used for that have been cut, so we'll see if that persists.
    - thrownaway2424 13y ago
      The difference between SF and NYC is in SF the homeless never freeze to death. And the difference between SF and Oakland is in Oakland the cops will taser you and the street gangs will break your legs for sleeping in the wrong neighborhood. Compared to everywhere else, SF is a hobo paradise.
      - w1ntermute 13y ago
        > The difference between SF and NYC is in SF the homeless never freeze to death. There were plenty of homeless in NYC in the 70s and 80s. I don't think you can just explain away the problem using the weather as an excuse.
- potatolicious 13y ago
  Homelessness and a government whose attitude towards it is to pretend the passive aggressively opposing them will make them go away. The city has, over the past decades, slowly taken over all public seating in homeless-prone areas of the city. It's a sunny day outside and you want to have a seat and munch on a sandwich instead of eating at your desk? No can do, there are literally no seats, benches, or anything that might be remotely comfortable to rest on. Ditto public restrooms, which have been taken away under the same pretenses. Of course, the response hasn't been a decrease in homelessness - they lean, lie, and sit against buildings just fine, and they piss and shit in the streets just as well too. San Francisco's stance towards homelessness seems to be "if we make it inconvenient to be homeless, people will stop being homeless", which strikes me as shockingly idiotic for a city famous for its liberalism.
  - enraged_camel 13y ago
    Heh. Where I live (Long Beach, CA), they deal with the homeless in equally idiotic ways. I was volunteering for an "alleyway beautification" project in downtown, and it just turned out that there was a small, cute park adjacent to the alley. To our dismay though, we found it to be locked 24/7. When we asked the city officials, they said it got locked because the homeless were using it as their living space! Similarly, when the cops are dealing with homeless people with mental disorders, do you know what they do? They don't actually take them to the station to write them up - they learned long ago that doing so doesn't accomplish anything (the system is not equipped to deal with mental disorders, especially in people with no money). Instead, they sit them in the backseat of their patrol car, drive them over to one of the adjacent cities (i.e. San Pedro, Carson, etc.) and drop them off there. That way, those homeless become that other city's problem! Can you believe it? It's crazy. I feel really bad making this analogy, but it's like sweeping the trash under the carpet and pretending the room is clean.
    - tiredofcareer 13y ago
      In Detroit the police used to round up homeless people in vans and after promising to take them to shelters, dropped them off in the nearby city of River Rouge. If you're not familiar with River Rouge, that's where nearly all of Detroit's heavy industry, such as several steel plants, is located. Here's what it looked like in the 70s: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6c/RIVER_ROUGE_PLANT_OF_THE_FORD_MOTOR_COMPANY_COVERS_1200_ACRES_OF_LAND_IN_DEARBORN_-_NARA_-_549725.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6c/RIVER_ROU... It's gotten better, but it's not exactly a residential city: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4f/ZugIslandFromDelray.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4f/ZugIsland... When I visit family, the I-75 bridge over River Rouge is a windows-up, vent-closed affair. River Rouge is rather famous these days for annoying Canada with hums, too.
pavel_lishin 13y ago
> I bet if someone dropped a deuce in front of a New York bodega, there'd be a dozen locals competing to rinse it off. A dozen locals competing to see who can spray the offender down with a hose, followed by beating them with it, perhaps.
- tiredofcareer 13y ago
  I didn't want to call New Yorkers insanely aggressive, but yeah, I'd expect that as well.
pavel_lishin 13y ago
> I bet if someone dropped a deuce in front of a New York bodega, there'd be a dozen locals competing to rinse it off. A dozen locals competing to see who can spray the offender down with a hose, followed by beating them with it, perhaps.

enraged_camel 13y ago

What is it about San Francisco that causes its denizens to defecate on the streets? I've visited it as a tourist many times, and have walked around extensively in neighborhoods such as Nob Hill, Fisherman's Wharf, Union Square, Financial District, and Inner/Outer Richmond. Never stepped on human shit, much less dog shit.

tiredofcareer 13y ago
You basically just listed five awesome and/or touristy neighborhoods and a tourist destination, that's why. Most startup types here commute to SoMa, and, well...
tptacek 13y ago
Homelessness.
- w1ntermute 13y ago
  SF needs to do what NYC did in the 90s. Bring in someone like Giuliani who will really crack down on these issues. That's basically impossible though with all the liberals in SF.
  - _delirium 13y ago
    I'm not sure I'd call NYC's policy less liberal overall, though it's different. It puts considerably more effort (and money!) into providing housing in the first place: about 5% of NYC's population is housed in public housing, versus about 1% for SF. NYC's homeless shelters have also been somewhat more effective at transitioning people off the streets and into apartments, though with recent budget cuts some of the programs that were used for that have been cut, so we'll see if that persists.
  - thrownaway2424 13y ago
    The difference between SF and NYC is in SF the homeless never freeze to death. And the difference between SF and Oakland is in Oakland the cops will taser you and the street gangs will break your legs for sleeping in the wrong neighborhood. Compared to everywhere else, SF is a hobo paradise.
    - w1ntermute 13y ago
      > The difference between SF and NYC is in SF the homeless never freeze to death. There were plenty of homeless in NYC in the 70s and 80s. I don't think you can just explain away the problem using the weather as an excuse.
potatolicious 13y ago
Homelessness and a government whose attitude towards it is to pretend the passive aggressively opposing them will make them go away. The city has, over the past decades, slowly taken over all public seating in homeless-prone areas of the city. It's a sunny day outside and you want to have a seat and munch on a sandwich instead of eating at your desk? No can do, there are literally no seats, benches, or anything that might be remotely comfortable to rest on. Ditto public restrooms, which have been taken away under the same pretenses. Of course, the response hasn't been a decrease in homelessness - they lean, lie, and sit against buildings just fine, and they piss and shit in the streets just as well too. San Francisco's stance towards homelessness seems to be "if we make it inconvenient to be homeless, people will stop being homeless", which strikes me as shockingly idiotic for a city famous for its liberalism.
- enraged_camel 13y ago
  Heh. Where I live (Long Beach, CA), they deal with the homeless in equally idiotic ways. I was volunteering for an "alleyway beautification" project in downtown, and it just turned out that there was a small, cute park adjacent to the alley. To our dismay though, we found it to be locked 24/7. When we asked the city officials, they said it got locked because the homeless were using it as their living space! Similarly, when the cops are dealing with homeless people with mental disorders, do you know what they do? They don't actually take them to the station to write them up - they learned long ago that doing so doesn't accomplish anything (the system is not equipped to deal with mental disorders, especially in people with no money). Instead, they sit them in the backseat of their patrol car, drive them over to one of the adjacent cities (i.e. San Pedro, Carson, etc.) and drop them off there. That way, those homeless become that other city's problem! Can you believe it? It's crazy. I feel really bad making this analogy, but it's like sweeping the trash under the carpet and pretending the room is clean.
  - tiredofcareer 13y ago
    In Detroit the police used to round up homeless people in vans and after promising to take them to shelters, dropped them off in the nearby city of River Rouge. If you're not familiar with River Rouge, that's where nearly all of Detroit's heavy industry, such as several steel plants, is located. Here's what it looked like in the 70s: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6c/RIVER_ROUGE_PLANT_OF_THE_FORD_MOTOR_COMPANY_COVERS_1200_ACRES_OF_LAND_IN_DEARBORN_-_NARA_-_549725.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6c/RIVER_ROU... It's gotten better, but it's not exactly a residential city: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4f/ZugIslandFromDelray.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4f/ZugIsland... When I visit family, the I-75 bridge over River Rouge is a windows-up, vent-closed affair. River Rouge is rather famous these days for annoying Canada with hums, too.

pavel_lishin 13y ago

> I bet if someone dropped a deuce in front of a New York bodega, there'd be a dozen locals competing to rinse it off. A dozen locals competing to see who can spray the offender down with a hose, followed by beating them with it, perhaps.

tiredofcareer 13y ago
I didn't want to call New Yorkers insanely aggressive, but yeah, I'd expect that as well.

pavel_lishin 13y ago