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Modern Desktop Linux is very fragile because everything has to be configured and managed automatically. You haven't been able to startx without a lot of reconfi

by yew 13y ago

Modern Desktop Linux is very fragile because everything has to be configured and managed automatically. You haven't been able to startx without a lot of reconfiguring for years. Ideally you want a full Desktop environment, but at a minimum you need a session manager (for auto-starting everything else, communicating with the * kits, * buses, * agents, and * managers for device integration, etc . . .), a settings daemon (stores settings for applications that care to use it, might be more than one of these - Xfce has two or three at the moment), a desktop manager (like a WM but for desktops), a window manager, a compositor (for special effects, might be part of the WM), plus miscellaneous bars, launchers, and plugins for same. It's perfectly possible to split all this up, but then you have to make all the parts compatible. Most distros want more integration, not less.

gizmo686 13y ago
>Modern Desktop Linux is very fragile because everything has to be configured and managed automatically. You haven't been able to startx without a lot of reconfiguring for years. What distribution does not support startx out of the box. If you boot into terminal (or kill the X service), then startx should just do whatever the system does to start the X server anyway.
- yew 13y ago
  startx is a shell script. The vast majority of distributions don't use it at all - they use a display manager that then does most, but not necessarily all, of what the xinit system does (plus some extras, depending on the DM). startx from a VT should give you an X server. You can get from there to a standard session (minus the DM) by setting the appropriate environment variables and making sure the right session manager is executed. I don't call that 'no configuration' though. And if you want to startx into Fluxbox you also have to make sure that all of the aforementioned services are run (unless you're totally abandoning your Desktop environment, in which case this whole conversation is pointless).
- darkr 13y ago
  I turned my back on 'Modern Desktop Linux' a few years ago and haven't looked back since. In my .profile I have: # if logging into tty6 startx if [ -z "$DISPLAY" ] && [ $(tty) = /dev/tty6 ]; then startx ; fi Then in my .xinitrc I have xrdb -merge ~/.Xresources eval $(gpg-agent --daemon) exec ck-launch-session dbus-launch awesome My full desktop environment uses 116MB RAM at boot and everything works flawlessly.
bdunbar 13y ago
> Modern Desktop Linux is very fragile because everything has to be configured and managed automatically. You haven't been able to startx without a lot of reconfiguring for years. I guess I don't know what a Desktop Linux from a hole in the ground. I use Slackware on my desktop, and it works just fine. I can switch WM using startx. I will allow that installing Slack is not a pointy-clicky exercise, and if the application isn't in Slack's package manager you'll need to compile from source but .. it's not that complicated.
- yew 13y ago
  I hope you know what Desktop Linux is. I don't care that you don't use a Desktop distro because I use Gentoo and XMonad and am generally quite comfortable with both. As for complicated well, that depends - complicated for who? There are a lot of people who couldn't configure && make && make install if their lives depended on it. Even if their lives literally depended on it. That's not necessarily their fault, but there you are nonetheless.
  - bdunbar 13y ago
    > I hope you know what Desktop Linux is. Until yesterday, if asked, I would have said 'A linux for end users'. And if asked for an example I would have pointed at my laptops running Slack/Enlightenment and said 'like that'. Maybe it's where I'm at: the only people I know who run Linux are guys who aren't above compiling from source when needed.
    - EvilLook 13y ago
      Apparently I don't run desktop Linux either because I have no problems editing settings with a text editor, nor do I drool on myself when it comes to reading documentation.
      - deleted 13y ago
        [deleted]

by yew 13y ago

gizmo686 13y ago

>Modern Desktop Linux is very fragile because everything has to be configured and managed automatically. You haven't been able to startx without a lot of reconfiguring for years. What distribution does not support startx out of the box. If you boot into terminal (or kill the X service), then startx should just do whatever the system does to start the X server anyway.

yew 13y ago
startx is a shell script. The vast majority of distributions don't use it at all - they use a display manager that then does most, but not necessarily all, of what the xinit system does (plus some extras, depending on the DM). startx from a VT should give you an X server. You can get from there to a standard session (minus the DM) by setting the appropriate environment variables and making sure the right session manager is executed. I don't call that 'no configuration' though. And if you want to startx into Fluxbox you also have to make sure that all of the aforementioned services are run (unless you're totally abandoning your Desktop environment, in which case this whole conversation is pointless).
darkr 13y ago
I turned my back on 'Modern Desktop Linux' a few years ago and haven't looked back since. In my .profile I have: # if logging into tty6 startx if [ -z "$DISPLAY" ] && [ $(tty) = /dev/tty6 ]; then startx ; fi Then in my .xinitrc I have xrdb -merge ~/.Xresources eval $(gpg-agent --daemon) exec ck-launch-session dbus-launch awesome My full desktop environment uses 116MB RAM at boot and everything works flawlessly.

bdunbar 13y ago

> Modern Desktop Linux is very fragile because everything has to be configured and managed automatically. You haven't been able to startx without a lot of reconfiguring for years. I guess I don't know what a Desktop Linux from a hole in the ground. I use Slackware on my desktop, and it works just fine. I can switch WM using startx. I will allow that installing Slack is not a pointy-clicky exercise, and if the application isn't in Slack's package manager you'll need to compile from source but .. it's not that complicated.

yew 13y ago
I hope you know what Desktop Linux is. I don't care that you don't use a Desktop distro because I use Gentoo and XMonad and am generally quite comfortable with both. As for complicated well, that depends - complicated for who? There are a lot of people who couldn't configure && make && make install if their lives depended on it. Even if their lives literally depended on it. That's not necessarily their fault, but there you are nonetheless.
- bdunbar 13y ago
  > I hope you know what Desktop Linux is. Until yesterday, if asked, I would have said 'A linux for end users'. And if asked for an example I would have pointed at my laptops running Slack/Enlightenment and said 'like that'. Maybe it's where I'm at: the only people I know who run Linux are guys who aren't above compiling from source when needed.
  - EvilLook 13y ago
    Apparently I don't run desktop Linux either because I have no problems editing settings with a text editor, nor do I drool on myself when it comes to reading documentation.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]