5 ms·

I think it's a big story. 3d printing opens many possibilities that CNC doesn't offer. A CNC requires specialised skill. Downloading and printing 3d doesn't.

by cturner 13y ago

I think it's a big story. 3d printing opens many possibilities that CNC doesn't offer. A CNC requires specialised skill. Downloading and printing 3d doesn't. Building guns with a CNC requires a lot of labour. Whereas you can imagine having a lab full of 3d printers being operated by a single pensioner. 3d printers look like they'll be generic and mass-produced. If so, in ten years there will be 3d printers everywhere. People sitting in refugee camps on the edge of hotzones won't have have difficulty getting access to them. At some time in the near future there will be a good-enough equivalent to the assault rifle that can be 3d printed. And drones. And other things. The US has avoided pouring arms into Syria partly out of concern for the mess that it will leave behind afterwards. Also, they're wanting to avoid arming people hostile to the west. These arguments are valid now, but we can see the end of it.

_delirium 13y ago
CNC machines do take skill to operate, but the amount of skill required to make a single-shot gun out of metal by conventional means is really low. It's something you can do with very rudimentary metalworking skills, using low-tech equipment. Now if you can 3d-print a reliable rifle like an AK-47, that could get interesting.
- cturner 13y ago
  Now if you can 3d-print a reliable rifle like an AK-47, that could get interesting. The team that made this gun are already doing the most difficult bit from the AR-15, a semi-automatic rifle that has been used in several massacres in the west (including the one that sparked heavy gun regulation in Australia in the 90s). That's why I thought this was news. First they made the lower-receiver of a powerful gun. Now they've also succeeded in producing all the parts of a not-powerful gun. As I see it, they've got a piece of string over the chasm and will iterate from here to build a bridge. I expect the barrel will be difficult (need a big machine and the rifling is probably tricky as you get to the top). The gas-reloading mechanism will take some work. But the lower-receiver is where most of the pressures where you might have doubt that plastic would work, and that's the bit they've already done. And that's just reimplementing an existing gun with a design that was optimised for metalwork. After that we'll see a bunch of development in designs that are optimised for plastics and printing. That'll be your AK-47 equivalent.
  - _delirium 13y ago
    the most difficult bit from the AR-15 As far as I understand it, the lower receiver on an AR-15 is actually a pretty trivial housing component, subject to almost no operational pressures, but interesting legally because it's where the gun's serial number happens to be stamped. (But I should note I don't really know much about AR-15s, just stuff I've read.)
    - cturner 13y ago
      Ah - thanks. Seems I've made a bad assumption that was key to my position. I understood the significance of the stamp but had also thought it was among the most vulnerable spots for operational shock. I'll go back and re-read on this.
      - temphn 13y ago
        cturner, you're actually right overall here. The DD team has succeeded in 3D printing a rifle barrel that works for 10 shots. See the Forbes article linked at the very top of the thread.
    - bluedino 13y ago
      It's simple as in there are no moving parts, but if it's not machined to the proper specifications the gun will be unreliable. The market failed for years trying to make the lower out of things such as carbon fiber instead of regular cast metal.
    - sk5t 13y ago
      Correct: the gas block, barrel, breech, etc., are all "upper" bits and take most of the physical stress. The lower includes the trigger assembly and magazine holder thingy, which are the serialized, "this is a gun" parts. Conceivably one could 3D-print the lower receiver, order the upper assembly, rotating bolt, recoil buffer, etc., through the mail with a prepaid card, and have an essentially untraceable rifle.
  - damoncali 13y ago
    They actually made one of the easiest parts. Far more difficult, if not impossible today would be the barrel. A trigger that worked more than once would also be extremely challenging. Not to mention that it would melt in short order.
lifeisstillgood 13y ago
> eople sitting in refugee camps on the edge of hotzones won't have have difficulty getting access to them. I am sorry but really - people in a refugee camp, with no sanitation, insufficient food and clean water, and yet working 3D printers with plentiful supplies of plastic dust? Refugee camps are by defintion, walkable from the worlds worst trouble spots, Access to weapons in the worlds worst trouble spots is not hard (http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/article-43343/police-recover-illegal-arms-refugee-camp http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/article-43343/police-recover-...). 3d printing of guns is a "first world problem" and will remain so forever. By the time a refugee camp has turned into a place that worries about 3d printing of anything, it has become a suburban utopia and the soccer mums can deal with the 3d printing labs.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- ghshephard 13y ago
  Interestingly enough, Peter Hamilton, in "Great North Road", envisions and interesting future in which they had an expedition, which for the most part relied on their 3D Printers and base printing material. Tents, Vehicle Repairs, components - they just kept churning them out. So, while I agree that 3D Printing of guns is likely, for the near future to be a "First world problem" - I don't think I would make that prediction 30 years out, and certainly would never be so bold to say "Forever". I can certainly see a future in which Refugee Camps don't have Water, Food, or Sanitation, but do have a broad array of 3D Printers and base printing material.
quux 13y ago
Indeed. When the 3d printed AR-15 receiver was making news, I did some research and found that people had been carving them out of wood blocks for years and years. This is nothing so new. The newness comes from being able to have an unskilled user setup a 3d printer, buy some ABS plastic to feed into it, download a file from the internet and begin producing guns. I don't know if this is a good or bad thing, but it's something to watch carefully. I could imagine a future where it's almost like the wild west again, so many people who would harm you have guns that everyone carries one in a holster, and it's just considered normal, like wearing a sword all the time was normal for the samurai. This may end up being a likely future in the USA since the 2nd amendment is impossible to repeal.
- HeyLaughingBoy 13y ago
  Why imagine anything that complex? You can buy all the guns you want at Walmart today. Anyone who can afford a 3D printer and the material can already afford a cheap rifle that will work infinitely better.
ghshephard 13y ago
Agreed that some new ground is being broken - it would just be nice if the automated CNC machines got some recognition. It's kind of amazing what they can do.

by cturner 13y ago

_delirium 13y ago

CNC machines do take skill to operate, but the amount of skill required to make a single-shot gun out of metal by conventional means is really low. It's something you can do with very rudimentary metalworking skills, using low-tech equipment. Now if you can 3d-print a reliable rifle like an AK-47, that could get interesting.

cturner 13y ago
Now if you can 3d-print a reliable rifle like an AK-47, that could get interesting. The team that made this gun are already doing the most difficult bit from the AR-15, a semi-automatic rifle that has been used in several massacres in the west (including the one that sparked heavy gun regulation in Australia in the 90s). That's why I thought this was news. First they made the lower-receiver of a powerful gun. Now they've also succeeded in producing all the parts of a not-powerful gun. As I see it, they've got a piece of string over the chasm and will iterate from here to build a bridge. I expect the barrel will be difficult (need a big machine and the rifling is probably tricky as you get to the top). The gas-reloading mechanism will take some work. But the lower-receiver is where most of the pressures where you might have doubt that plastic would work, and that's the bit they've already done. And that's just reimplementing an existing gun with a design that was optimised for metalwork. After that we'll see a bunch of development in designs that are optimised for plastics and printing. That'll be your AK-47 equivalent.
- _delirium 13y ago
  the most difficult bit from the AR-15 As far as I understand it, the lower receiver on an AR-15 is actually a pretty trivial housing component, subject to almost no operational pressures, but interesting legally because it's where the gun's serial number happens to be stamped. (But I should note I don't really know much about AR-15s, just stuff I've read.)
  - cturner 13y ago
    Ah - thanks. Seems I've made a bad assumption that was key to my position. I understood the significance of the stamp but had also thought it was among the most vulnerable spots for operational shock. I'll go back and re-read on this.
    - temphn 13y ago
      cturner, you're actually right overall here. The DD team has succeeded in 3D printing a rifle barrel that works for 10 shots. See the Forbes article linked at the very top of the thread.
  - bluedino 13y ago
    It's simple as in there are no moving parts, but if it's not machined to the proper specifications the gun will be unreliable. The market failed for years trying to make the lower out of things such as carbon fiber instead of regular cast metal.
  - sk5t 13y ago
    Correct: the gas block, barrel, breech, etc., are all "upper" bits and take most of the physical stress. The lower includes the trigger assembly and magazine holder thingy, which are the serialized, "this is a gun" parts. Conceivably one could 3D-print the lower receiver, order the upper assembly, rotating bolt, recoil buffer, etc., through the mail with a prepaid card, and have an essentially untraceable rifle.
- damoncali 13y ago
  They actually made one of the easiest parts. Far more difficult, if not impossible today would be the barrel. A trigger that worked more than once would also be extremely challenging. Not to mention that it would melt in short order.

lifeisstillgood 13y ago

> eople sitting in refugee camps on the edge of hotzones won't have have difficulty getting access to them. I am sorry but really - people in a refugee camp, with no sanitation, insufficient food and clean water, and yet working 3D printers with plentiful supplies of plastic dust? Refugee camps are by defintion, walkable from the worlds worst trouble spots, Access to weapons in the worlds worst trouble spots is not hard (http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/article-43343/police-recover-illegal-arms-refugee-camp http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/article-43343/police-recover-...). 3d printing of guns is a "first world problem" and will remain so forever. By the time a refugee camp has turned into a place that worries about 3d printing of anything, it has become a suburban utopia and the soccer mums can deal with the 3d printing labs.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
ghshephard 13y ago
Interestingly enough, Peter Hamilton, in "Great North Road", envisions and interesting future in which they had an expedition, which for the most part relied on their 3D Printers and base printing material. Tents, Vehicle Repairs, components - they just kept churning them out. So, while I agree that 3D Printing of guns is likely, for the near future to be a "First world problem" - I don't think I would make that prediction 30 years out, and certainly would never be so bold to say "Forever". I can certainly see a future in which Refugee Camps don't have Water, Food, or Sanitation, but do have a broad array of 3D Printers and base printing material.

quux 13y ago

Indeed. When the 3d printed AR-15 receiver was making news, I did some research and found that people had been carving them out of wood blocks for years and years. This is nothing so new. The newness comes from being able to have an unskilled user setup a 3d printer, buy some ABS plastic to feed into it, download a file from the internet and begin producing guns. I don't know if this is a good or bad thing, but it's something to watch carefully. I could imagine a future where it's almost like the wild west again, so many people who would harm you have guns that everyone carries one in a holster, and it's just considered normal, like wearing a sword all the time was normal for the samurai. This may end up being a likely future in the USA since the 2nd amendment is impossible to repeal.

HeyLaughingBoy 13y ago
Why imagine anything that complex? You can buy all the guns you want at Walmart today. Anyone who can afford a 3D printer and the material can already afford a cheap rifle that will work infinitely better.

ghshephard 13y ago

Agreed that some new ground is being broken - it would just be nice if the automated CNC machines got some recognition. It's kind of amazing what they can do.