4 ms·

All good thoughts, and similar to why I develop native apps for iOS vs web apps. I think John Gruber summarized it nicely when he said: "Facebook, bless them,

by tannerc 13y ago

All good thoughts, and similar to why I develop native apps for iOS vs web apps. I think John Gruber summarized it nicely when he said: "Facebook, bless them, has it right. What's great about the web is ubiquitous network availability, not running within a browser tab. Websites are just services, and what you see in a browser tab is merely one possible interface to that service. The best possible interface to that service is often, if not usually, going to be a native app, not a web app."[1] 1. http://daringfireball.net/2013/04/web_apps_native_apps http://daringfireball.net/2013/04/web_apps_native_apps

zenocon 13y ago
I think dismissing web tech b/c of what Facebook does or John Gruber says is short-sighted. Case in point: the people over at Sencha rebuilt Facebook in HTML5 to run faster than Facebook's native app [1]. It may take an additional level of skill and careful planning...and it may be easier to shoot yourself in the foot with a WebApp that provides a compelling experience with performance on par with a native app, but that doesn't mean it can't be done. 1. http://www.sencha.com/blog/the-making-of-fastbook-an-html5-love-story http://www.sencha.com/blog/the-making-of-fastbook-an-html5-l...
- chenglou 13y ago
  I've seen the case of Sencha Facebook app brought up many times now, but I've never seen someone point out their huge flaw in the scrolling. At one point in the demo, they trivially dismiss the fact that they made the scrolling inertia smaller to give the data a chance to load; but that's in my opinion THE main flaw of the app. As a matter of fact, that's the first thing I notice on every web app I've seen to date: the quirky scrolling physics. For me, Sencha's implementation falls right in that uncanny valley and it kills the UX of the app each time for me. I don't see why they put so much emphasis on the loading speed or smoothness (not that it's not important), when all this effort to improve the UX is completely offset by the scrolling.
- coolsunglasses 13y ago
  They had to do more work, relatively speaking, to make that work well than it would've taken to do the same with a native app. Sencha's little demonstration was the very definition of "bending over backwards".
herdrick 13y ago
Everyone I've talked to about it gave up on the iOS Facebook app and just started using the web version.
- potatolicious 13y ago
  Ask everyone again. This was true a long time ago (long time being, like, 1.5-2 years), where the Facebook app was so slow and so crashy (and the API down so often) that it was mostly useless. Facebook is, IMO, one of the gold standards now for large-scale iOS app building. I had the pleasure of hearing one of their people speak about this a few weeks ago and they're very much at the forefront of iOS engineering.
  - bmalicoat 13y ago
    I've been using the FB app since it arrived on iOS. At one point it was a decent app, but it is far from being the gold standard. The last few updates have just introduced more bugs and lag to the experience. Lately I don't even know if I clicked the 'comments and likes' text reliably. You can't tell if you missed the ridiculously small hit target or if it is just taking the usual 3-5 seconds to give you any kind of indication it is doing anything. That's just one example of a frustrating experience, but I consistently have others—zooming and panning pictures randomly closes them, likes sometimes never show up, my own posts won't be visible on the phone, only on the web, etc.
- chenglou 13y ago
  Apparently Facebook's iOS engineers weren't that excellent (I mean, really relatively speaking), so comparing their old Facebook effort to a well-made web app's is not telling. http://www.tuaw.com/2013/03/05/whys-facebooks-app-so-much-better-lately-ask-big-nerd-ranch/ http://www.tuaw.com/2013/03/05/whys-facebooks-app-so-much-be... Plus, the Facebook app is way different now. I don't see how it'd be possible for them to implement web-based chat heads without killing the performance (even on my iPad 3 it isn't 100% smooth). Lots of times these clever design concepts cannot be implemented on the web because of its relative performance drawback.
Spearchucker 13y ago
Warning, rant: Web does not mean ubiquitous network availability. It's a turn of phrase that only seems to originate from Silicon Valley and Redmond. When I get on the London Underground my network is gone. When I drive from Cape Town to Hout Bay my network disappears. When I go into my favourite coffee shop in Berlin my network disappears. If an app (Evernote, for example) relies on a non- store-and-forward network connection to hook me up with my data it gets uninstalled. I can't use Trello for the same reason. When I need my data I need my data.
- tannerc 13y ago
  Right, that's a huge stepping stone for web apps to overcome. But what happens when the interface itself requires an update from the cloud? We're doomed. At least native apps can fall-back seamlessly.

by tannerc 13y ago

zenocon 13y ago

I think dismissing web tech b/c of what Facebook does or John Gruber says is short-sighted. Case in point: the people over at Sencha rebuilt Facebook in HTML5 to run faster than Facebook's native app [1]. It may take an additional level of skill and careful planning...and it may be easier to shoot yourself in the foot with a WebApp that provides a compelling experience with performance on par with a native app, but that doesn't mean it can't be done. 1. http://www.sencha.com/blog/the-making-of-fastbook-an-html5-love-story http://www.sencha.com/blog/the-making-of-fastbook-an-html5-l...

chenglou 13y ago
I've seen the case of Sencha Facebook app brought up many times now, but I've never seen someone point out their huge flaw in the scrolling. At one point in the demo, they trivially dismiss the fact that they made the scrolling inertia smaller to give the data a chance to load; but that's in my opinion THE main flaw of the app. As a matter of fact, that's the first thing I notice on every web app I've seen to date: the quirky scrolling physics. For me, Sencha's implementation falls right in that uncanny valley and it kills the UX of the app each time for me. I don't see why they put so much emphasis on the loading speed or smoothness (not that it's not important), when all this effort to improve the UX is completely offset by the scrolling.
coolsunglasses 13y ago
They had to do more work, relatively speaking, to make that work well than it would've taken to do the same with a native app. Sencha's little demonstration was the very definition of "bending over backwards".

herdrick 13y ago

Everyone I've talked to about it gave up on the iOS Facebook app and just started using the web version.

potatolicious 13y ago
Ask everyone again. This was true a long time ago (long time being, like, 1.5-2 years), where the Facebook app was so slow and so crashy (and the API down so often) that it was mostly useless. Facebook is, IMO, one of the gold standards now for large-scale iOS app building. I had the pleasure of hearing one of their people speak about this a few weeks ago and they're very much at the forefront of iOS engineering.
- bmalicoat 13y ago
  I've been using the FB app since it arrived on iOS. At one point it was a decent app, but it is far from being the gold standard. The last few updates have just introduced more bugs and lag to the experience. Lately I don't even know if I clicked the 'comments and likes' text reliably. You can't tell if you missed the ridiculously small hit target or if it is just taking the usual 3-5 seconds to give you any kind of indication it is doing anything. That's just one example of a frustrating experience, but I consistently have others—zooming and panning pictures randomly closes them, likes sometimes never show up, my own posts won't be visible on the phone, only on the web, etc.
chenglou 13y ago
Apparently Facebook's iOS engineers weren't that excellent (I mean, really relatively speaking), so comparing their old Facebook effort to a well-made web app's is not telling. http://www.tuaw.com/2013/03/05/whys-facebooks-app-so-much-better-lately-ask-big-nerd-ranch/ http://www.tuaw.com/2013/03/05/whys-facebooks-app-so-much-be... Plus, the Facebook app is way different now. I don't see how it'd be possible for them to implement web-based chat heads without killing the performance (even on my iPad 3 it isn't 100% smooth). Lots of times these clever design concepts cannot be implemented on the web because of its relative performance drawback.

Spearchucker 13y ago

Warning, rant: Web does not mean ubiquitous network availability. It's a turn of phrase that only seems to originate from Silicon Valley and Redmond. When I get on the London Underground my network is gone. When I drive from Cape Town to Hout Bay my network disappears. When I go into my favourite coffee shop in Berlin my network disappears. If an app (Evernote, for example) relies on a non- store-and-forward network connection to hook me up with my data it gets uninstalled. I can't use Trello for the same reason. When I need my data I need my data.

tannerc 13y ago
Right, that's a huge stepping stone for web apps to overcome. But what happens when the interface itself requires an update from the cloud? We're doomed. At least native apps can fall-back seamlessly.