4 ms·

Here we go again, just like last time with lots of FUD. I read through the links in the post and they're completely devoid of any details. First, I completely

Here we go again, just like last time with lots of FUD. I read through the links in the post and they're completely devoid of any details. First, I completely fail to see what this has to do with Secure Boot. If you're a System Builder and you're able to install Linux but are unable to turn off a checkbox in the settings, then you're a shitty system builder and deserve to have your business shut down. Second, I completely fail to see what this has to do with Windows 8. The main complaint seems to be that the big OEMs are not shipping laptops without Windows being already installed. Wasn't this true with Windows 7 too? It looks like the magic words "Windows 8 Secure Boot" were included in the headline and post only to gain HN karma points. If you're a business and want laptops without an OS, you need to go to the ODMs like Clevo, Compal, Asus, MSI, Quanta, Wistron, Mitac, Arima and Invente. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_design_manufacturer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_design_manufacturer They will happily sell you laptops in bulk without an OS installed. For example http://www.system76.com http://www.system76.com does exactly that. Looks like the computer shops linked seem to just want Lenovo to sell them bare laptops so they can skim a profit by just loading Linux on them and then selling them for a higher price. Guess what, Lenovo doesn't want to increase their costs by creating a separate assembly line process which won't make them any money. Asus sells barebones laptop kits if I am not mistaken. It's interesting how yelling "OMG WINDOWS 8 SECURE BOOT!!!" gets you a lot of karma here even though it has nothing to do with the issue at hand. The user is in control of the PC. They can load any key they trust or roll their own personal key and even remove Microsoft's key to prevent Windows from booting on their computer. I don't see why tens of millions of PCs used by non-technical people should be susceptible to undetectable rootkits out of the box just to appease some stupid system builders who can't find the setting to turn it off in the BIOS menu.

Toshio 13y ago
> "If you're a business and want laptops without an OS" No, I'm a consumer who wants the same variety of laptops/specs/price points that are sold with windows eight preinstalled, to be available without microsoft's contraptions, be they operating systems or encryption keys. microsoft doesn't want me to have that choice, and this is the topic at hand, and by the way, you should consider sticking to the topic at hand.
- scholia 13y ago
  Easy: buy a Mac. If there was a viable market of people willing to pay an economic price for a Linux laptop then there would be companies to provide them. Several have tried. Some are still trying (eg Dell) though it's hard to make money selling to cheapskates. As it is, whatever Linux market there is depends on the economies of scale created by the Windows market. You're saving far more money thanks to Windows than you would ever pay for Windows licences.
  - frostmatthew 13y ago
    Just because somebody prefers free/open-source software doesn't make them a "cheapskate"
    - recoiledsnake 13y ago
      Nice strawman. Not wanting to pay thousands of dollars for a PC does not make someone a "cheapskate".
    - scholia 13y ago
      In theory, you're right. However, in reality, the sort of people who whine about paying $20 or less for a bundled copy of Windows are generally not in the market for PCs that have a viable profit margin. This is one of the things that kills would-be Linux companies (though here are others). You're welcome to point me to the evidence for a large group of open source enthusiasts shopping for high-margin laptops.
      - gbin 13y ago
        The problem is not about high-margin / low-margin laptops at all ... it is simply linked to the terrible Linux popularity : I am at my third Sony Z laptop (~2k to ~3k laptops). Every time, the first thing I did with them was to dump the original windows partition and install linux . The "windows tax" on them were negligible and did not impact my choice at all, so would Sony do anything for people like me ? Of course not except if a competitor would produce a successful similar hardware with Linux on it, and that doesn't happen because people don't show interest for linux.

Toshio 13y ago

> "If you're a business and want laptops without an OS" No, I'm a consumer who wants the same variety of laptops/specs/price points that are sold with windows eight preinstalled, to be available without microsoft's contraptions, be they operating systems or encryption keys. microsoft doesn't want me to have that choice, and this is the topic at hand, and by the way, you should consider sticking to the topic at hand.

scholia 13y ago
Easy: buy a Mac. If there was a viable market of people willing to pay an economic price for a Linux laptop then there would be companies to provide them. Several have tried. Some are still trying (eg Dell) though it's hard to make money selling to cheapskates. As it is, whatever Linux market there is depends on the economies of scale created by the Windows market. You're saving far more money thanks to Windows than you would ever pay for Windows licences.
- frostmatthew 13y ago
  Just because somebody prefers free/open-source software doesn't make them a "cheapskate"
  - recoiledsnake 13y ago
    Nice strawman. Not wanting to pay thousands of dollars for a PC does not make someone a "cheapskate".
  - scholia 13y ago
    In theory, you're right. However, in reality, the sort of people who whine about paying $20 or less for a bundled copy of Windows are generally not in the market for PCs that have a viable profit margin. This is one of the things that kills would-be Linux companies (though here are others). You're welcome to point me to the evidence for a large group of open source enthusiasts shopping for high-margin laptops.
    - gbin 13y ago
      The problem is not about high-margin / low-margin laptops at all ... it is simply linked to the terrible Linux popularity : I am at my third Sony Z laptop (~2k to ~3k laptops). Every time, the first thing I did with them was to dump the original windows partition and install linux . The "windows tax" on them were negligible and did not impact my choice at all, so would Sony do anything for people like me ? Of course not except if a competitor would produce a successful similar hardware with Linux on it, and that doesn't happen because people don't show interest for linux.