5 ms·

I believe this works when you give women money. My dad does this sort of work in India and we've had many conversations about how you can't trust men with free

by jmathai 14y ago

I believe this works when you give women money. My dad does this sort of work in India and we've had many conversations about how you can't trust men with free money.

enraged_camel 14y ago
That is not sexist at all.
- evolve2k 14y ago
  Context on why girls and women: http://www.girleffect.org/why-girls/#&panel1-1 http://www.girleffect.org/why-girls/#&panel1-1
  - jjoonathan 14y ago
    There's a difference between making up for an existing disparity (the site you linked claims it is doing this and I applaud them for their efforts) and creating a new one (e.g. differential BI). I don't think there is a single person here who would support giving BI preferentially to men, so when you proposed giving money to women we all assumed you meant giving it preferentially to women, because otherwise your statement would have simply been a restatement of what everyone else was saying. I object to the notion of giving BI preferentially to women, although I fully support the cause of ensuring they receive their share. Please clarify what you meant.
    - jmathai 14y ago
      This isn't about making up for existing disparity or some form of affirmative action ... it's simply that women seem to be the best investment if you want to impact change on future generations.
      - ahk 14y ago
        Please watch this talk (by a woman) on such issues: http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=3dwLzB0kFxI&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D3dwLzB0kFxI http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=3dwLzB0kFxI&desktop_uri=%... Tl;dw: feminism and sexism has bad effects on society and it is a very big deal.
        jmathai 14y ago
        Again, you can sit and talk about the "effects" of this or that or you can be involved in helping change someone else's situation[1]. If you're going to do something then you have to look at the evidence available to you. If you've got a village and you give men and women money to help them improve their circumstances and you find out that the majority of men spend the money on themselves (sometimes gambling and alcohol) while the women buy food and spend it on children; what decision would you make? [1] I set up a free sewing school for WOMEN in India with my father where they take 6 weeks of training and leave with a sewing machine.
    - evolve2k 14y ago
      The research shows that if mothers obtain the funds they will spend the vast majority on family welfare ~80% whereas the men spend less than 40%. The difference seems to be attributable to the man having a greater sense of individualism in how they apply the funds and also they incorrectly overestimate their ability spend the funds in profit seeking ways eg gamble the funds or use the funds towards seeking new funds.
      - gijjk 14y ago
        > they incorrectly overestimate their ability spend the funds in profit seeking ways eg gamble the funds or use the funds towards seeking new funds. That's harsh on a startup news forum. I wonder how PG and VC would react if founder spent their investments on family welfare.
        jmathai 14y ago
        I think it's short term vs. long term. Investing in welfare (keeping children clothed, fed and in school) has long term benefits. Unfortunately, that's next to impossible for much of the world. It's no different from the lottery system here in the US which is used by and marketed to lower income individuals. I don't think anyone says that buying lottery tickets is a "good" investment for a family.
- mtowle 14y ago
  Labeling is dismissal, not refutation. The latter option is more difficult, but more effective. The former... well, not all dismissal is soapboxing, but all soapboxing is dismissive. "Who cares! Boxes are fun to stand on." Hey, can't argue there.
- jmathai 14y ago
  It's not. There's plenty of studies that show the most effective ways to help a society is by empowering the women [1][2][3]. Standing for "equality" for the sake of "equality" doesn't actually benefit anyone. [1] http://www.care.org/getinvolved/advocacy/pdfs/whyempowerwomen.pdf http://www.care.org/getinvolved/advocacy/pdfs/whyempowerwome... [2] http://www.wfp.org/women4women http://www.wfp.org/women4women [3] http://www.guardian.co.uk/global-development-professionals-network/2013/mar/26/empower-women-end-poverty-developing-world http://www.guardian.co.uk/global-development-professionals-n...
  - Dewie 14y ago
    If there ever came out studies that suggested that women can't be trusted with money, especially compared to men, then well... those studies wouldn't be existing for long.
    - jmathai 14y ago
      Out of genuine curiosity, do you happen to be a white male?
      - Dewie 14y ago
        I've heard that I could pass for a Turk, but yes - I am! I guess now you can label me as one of those typical entitled white males, which isn't ironic at all given that gender issues are often about fighting putting people in boxes like that.
        jmathai 14y ago
        I was just curious. Putting people in boxes isn't the most horrible thing in the world, ya know? It can help you come to positive solutions (not only negative ones). Like giving money to women over men because the evidence shows that the net benefit for the entire community is larger. That's just my opinion. I don't claim others are wrong, but I do claim that I'm right :).
- mc-lovin 14y ago
  Funny how when things favor women they are just "objective facts" and therefore can't be labelled "sexist". While all the things men are better have have already been proven to be results of cultural bias by esteemed sociologists...
  - jmathai 14y ago
    I guess some folks are primarily concerned with not being a *ist. I'm personally interested in upward mobility of people and groups who are marginalized. Black people in the US have a much higher chance of ending up in prison. A racist statement? I can't really tell you, to be honest. But if that can be used to help provide upward mobility to that specific group I'm happy to state that observation. Or you can just stand on a soapbox.
    - mc-lovin 14y ago
      You seem to be ignoring a third possibility, which is stating things because they are true, not because of how your statements will be "used".
      - jmathai 14y ago
        Valid point. I don't personally care about statements of truth unless they can be used toward some form of improvement. So that's my bias which you might have picked up on.
        mc-lovin 14y ago
        My own point of view is that I'm not infallible and therefore it is better to state what I think is true, and let people draw whatever conclusions they like, and take whatever actions they like, based on what I say. I expect on averaging that stating the truth should be beneficial rather than harmful, because people with good intentions will seek to base their arguments and actions on the truth, while people with bad intentions in many cases won't care. So ultimately I also only care about "improvement" but I don't define this in terms of my own ideology, because I could be wrong on many things.

by jmathai 14y ago

I believe this works when you give women money. My dad does this sort of work in India and we've had many conversations about how you can't trust men with free money.

enraged_camel 14y ago

That is not sexist at all.

evolve2k 14y ago
Context on why girls and women: http://www.girleffect.org/why-girls/#&panel1-1 http://www.girleffect.org/why-girls/#&panel1-1
- jjoonathan 14y ago
  There's a difference between making up for an existing disparity (the site you linked claims it is doing this and I applaud them for their efforts) and creating a new one (e.g. differential BI). I don't think there is a single person here who would support giving BI preferentially to men, so when you proposed giving money to women we all assumed you meant giving it preferentially to women, because otherwise your statement would have simply been a restatement of what everyone else was saying. I object to the notion of giving BI preferentially to women, although I fully support the cause of ensuring they receive their share. Please clarify what you meant.
  - jmathai 14y ago
    This isn't about making up for existing disparity or some form of affirmative action ... it's simply that women seem to be the best investment if you want to impact change on future generations.
    - ahk 14y ago
      Please watch this talk (by a woman) on such issues: http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=3dwLzB0kFxI&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D3dwLzB0kFxI http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=3dwLzB0kFxI&desktop_uri=%... Tl;dw: feminism and sexism has bad effects on society and it is a very big deal.
      - jmathai 14y ago
        Again, you can sit and talk about the "effects" of this or that or you can be involved in helping change someone else's situation[1]. If you're going to do something then you have to look at the evidence available to you. If you've got a village and you give men and women money to help them improve their circumstances and you find out that the majority of men spend the money on themselves (sometimes gambling and alcohol) while the women buy food and spend it on children; what decision would you make? [1] I set up a free sewing school for WOMEN in India with my father where they take 6 weeks of training and leave with a sewing machine.
  - evolve2k 14y ago
    The research shows that if mothers obtain the funds they will spend the vast majority on family welfare ~80% whereas the men spend less than 40%. The difference seems to be attributable to the man having a greater sense of individualism in how they apply the funds and also they incorrectly overestimate their ability spend the funds in profit seeking ways eg gamble the funds or use the funds towards seeking new funds.
    - gijjk 14y ago
      > they incorrectly overestimate their ability spend the funds in profit seeking ways eg gamble the funds or use the funds towards seeking new funds. That's harsh on a startup news forum. I wonder how PG and VC would react if founder spent their investments on family welfare.
      - jmathai 14y ago
        I think it's short term vs. long term. Investing in welfare (keeping children clothed, fed and in school) has long term benefits. Unfortunately, that's next to impossible for much of the world. It's no different from the lottery system here in the US which is used by and marketed to lower income individuals. I don't think anyone says that buying lottery tickets is a "good" investment for a family.
mtowle 14y ago
Labeling is dismissal, not refutation. The latter option is more difficult, but more effective. The former... well, not all dismissal is soapboxing, but all soapboxing is dismissive. "Who cares! Boxes are fun to stand on." Hey, can't argue there.
jmathai 14y ago
It's not. There's plenty of studies that show the most effective ways to help a society is by empowering the women [1][2][3]. Standing for "equality" for the sake of "equality" doesn't actually benefit anyone. [1] http://www.care.org/getinvolved/advocacy/pdfs/whyempowerwomen.pdf http://www.care.org/getinvolved/advocacy/pdfs/whyempowerwome... [2] http://www.wfp.org/women4women http://www.wfp.org/women4women [3] http://www.guardian.co.uk/global-development-professionals-network/2013/mar/26/empower-women-end-poverty-developing-world http://www.guardian.co.uk/global-development-professionals-n...
- Dewie 14y ago
  If there ever came out studies that suggested that women can't be trusted with money, especially compared to men, then well... those studies wouldn't be existing for long.
  - jmathai 14y ago
    Out of genuine curiosity, do you happen to be a white male?
    - Dewie 14y ago
      I've heard that I could pass for a Turk, but yes - I am! I guess now you can label me as one of those typical entitled white males, which isn't ironic at all given that gender issues are often about fighting putting people in boxes like that.
      - jmathai 14y ago
        I was just curious. Putting people in boxes isn't the most horrible thing in the world, ya know? It can help you come to positive solutions (not only negative ones). Like giving money to women over men because the evidence shows that the net benefit for the entire community is larger. That's just my opinion. I don't claim others are wrong, but I do claim that I'm right :).
mc-lovin 14y ago
Funny how when things favor women they are just "objective facts" and therefore can't be labelled "sexist". While all the things men are better have have already been proven to be results of cultural bias by esteemed sociologists...
- jmathai 14y ago
  I guess some folks are primarily concerned with not being a *ist. I'm personally interested in upward mobility of people and groups who are marginalized. Black people in the US have a much higher chance of ending up in prison. A racist statement? I can't really tell you, to be honest. But if that can be used to help provide upward mobility to that specific group I'm happy to state that observation. Or you can just stand on a soapbox.
  - mc-lovin 14y ago
    You seem to be ignoring a third possibility, which is stating things because they are true, not because of how your statements will be "used".
    - jmathai 14y ago
      Valid point. I don't personally care about statements of truth unless they can be used toward some form of improvement. So that's my bias which you might have picked up on.
      - mc-lovin 14y ago
        My own point of view is that I'm not infallible and therefore it is better to state what I think is true, and let people draw whatever conclusions they like, and take whatever actions they like, based on what I say. I expect on averaging that stating the truth should be beneficial rather than harmful, because people with good intentions will seek to base their arguments and actions on the truth, while people with bad intentions in many cases won't care. So ultimately I also only care about "improvement" but I don't define this in terms of my own ideology, because I could be wrong on many things.