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To be clear, I don't actually think it's worth trying to influence what is or isn't the legal interpretation that we might desire. We can't blame power for est

by moxie 13y ago

To be clear, I don't actually think it's worth trying to influence what is or isn't the legal interpretation that we might desire. We can't blame power for establishing systems of control, just as we can't blame a tiger for mauling a zoo keeper: it's the nature of the thing. It's what we should expect, no matter how much time we spend coaxing or training it. I'd much rather invest energy into developing solutions that allow us to communicate securely, rather than investing energy into asking those with power not to monitor our insecure communication.

flogic 13y ago
The critical difference is one is a tiger with limited reasoning ability and the other is a human being. So, I can and should be pissed at people in power when they overstep their bounds.
- gojomo 13y ago
  And this being "pissed" achieves what exactly? Does your level of pissitude work as leverage to affect the reasoned-out behavior of these other human beings? If so, through what mechanism?
  - flogic 13y ago
    Being pissed leads to me donating money to the ACLU, voting, and voicing my opinions.
    - mtowle 13y ago
      One of those might do something.
      - bubblelamp 13y ago
        It's asinine to suggest that we remove vocal outrage from our political dialog. It is one of the finest tools of change. Just look at all the faux outrage over "high unemployment" under Bush 43 (average of around 5%), and compare it to the lack of outrage in today's economy. No, I think outrage is not something I'll give up to please supposedly enlightened people like yourself.
- mtowle 13y ago
  >The critical difference is one is a tiger with limited reasoning ability and the other is a human being. No it's not, it's a system of human beings. Systems make "decisions" quite differently than individuals do. In some cases they have what we might consider far superior reasoning ability compared to the individual, but in others they're even more limited than the tiger.
unclebucknasty 13y ago
But the thing is that this power of which you speak is supposed to be ours, per our form of government. We are so far off the reservation that we have given up on trying to reclaim our government and instead, must now find ways to protect ourselves from our government. That's a powerful statement about the plight of our nation.
- sliverstorm 13y ago
  Trouble is, the government represents 300 million people. You can't "reclaim your government" when the angered party consists of a couple thousand people.
  - unclebucknasty 13y ago
    I'm not sure what you mean by "the angered party", but my point was specifically that our government has been co-opted by interest groups that are not the people. The fact that we have 300 million citizens and majority will cannot be expressed is exactly a symptom of this condition. The government is no longer the people, but a separate entity with its own agendas. Agendas which frequently run counter to the interests of the people.

by moxie 13y ago

flogic 13y ago

The critical difference is one is a tiger with limited reasoning ability and the other is a human being. So, I can and should be pissed at people in power when they overstep their bounds.

gojomo 13y ago
And this being "pissed" achieves what exactly? Does your level of pissitude work as leverage to affect the reasoned-out behavior of these other human beings? If so, through what mechanism?
- flogic 13y ago
  Being pissed leads to me donating money to the ACLU, voting, and voicing my opinions.
  - mtowle 13y ago
    One of those might do something.
    - bubblelamp 13y ago
      It's asinine to suggest that we remove vocal outrage from our political dialog. It is one of the finest tools of change. Just look at all the faux outrage over "high unemployment" under Bush 43 (average of around 5%), and compare it to the lack of outrage in today's economy. No, I think outrage is not something I'll give up to please supposedly enlightened people like yourself.
mtowle 13y ago
>The critical difference is one is a tiger with limited reasoning ability and the other is a human being. No it's not, it's a system of human beings. Systems make "decisions" quite differently than individuals do. In some cases they have what we might consider far superior reasoning ability compared to the individual, but in others they're even more limited than the tiger.

unclebucknasty 13y ago

But the thing is that this power of which you speak is supposed to be ours, per our form of government. We are so far off the reservation that we have given up on trying to reclaim our government and instead, must now find ways to protect ourselves from our government. That's a powerful statement about the plight of our nation.

sliverstorm 13y ago
Trouble is, the government represents 300 million people. You can't "reclaim your government" when the angered party consists of a couple thousand people.
- unclebucknasty 13y ago
  I'm not sure what you mean by "the angered party", but my point was specifically that our government has been co-opted by interest groups that are not the people. The fact that we have 300 million citizens and majority will cannot be expressed is exactly a symptom of this condition. The government is no longer the people, but a separate entity with its own agendas. Agendas which frequently run counter to the interests of the people.