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That is why I like Costco better: the people who work there don't seem as downtrodden. Either I've been fooled by corporate propaganda or they really have figur

by gruseom 14y ago

That is why I like Costco better: the people who work there don't seem as downtrodden. Either I've been fooled by corporate propaganda or they really have figured out a way to make money, lower prices, and treat people relatively well. Walmarts feel like places of despair to me and Costcos like places of hope. I know how ludicrous that sounds, but the feeling is real. I often chat with workers at checkout counters to gut-test my theory, and it seems to hold up, though it could all just be confirmation bias. Edit: there's one big difference, though. To shop at Costco you have to buy twice as much (plus typically pay membership fees). That step could be too steep for the people most living hand-to-mouth, even though it would save them money within weeks. So there could be sample bias here too.

protomyth 14y ago
The membership is the too steep part for Costco.
- malandrew 14y ago
  It would be nice if CostCo allowed people of low income to apply for a financial aid in the form of free membership if their income was low enough. It's unfortunate that only the people with greater purchasing power get access to the lowest cost per item unit.
  - nijk 14y ago
    Or even a monthly installment.
  - rogerbinns 14y ago
    > ... free membership The membership is the per member profit. Costco doesn't mark up items more than 14%. In some states they aren't allowed to require membership to access the pharmacy. If what you proposed was workable, I'd expect groups of people in an area to band together or have a middleman in order to only have one membership and break up bulk items. (And technically there is such a middleman doing their best to lower prices - they are called Walmart.) > ... greater purchasing power get access to the lowest cost ... Same thing happens with the US health system - the uninsured pay the most for exactly the same procedures at the same place. At least in the case of Costco it is economically sensible because buyers purchase a bigger volume and the store has greater throughput. (Costco typically has 4,000 SKUs per store while a normal supermarket will be around 16,000.)
  - protomyth 13y ago
    CostCo's profit is the memberships. It is a smart business model that is very successful. It just isn't designed for people who are living hand-to-mouth. Nothing wrong with that, its just how it is.
- LogicX 14y ago
  One can shop at Costco for a 5% premium on purchases
  - protomyth 13y ago
    And that 5% puts Wal-Mart back in competitive range without the stigma of being too poor for a membership.
- aerique 14y ago
  What is this membership thing one needs to buy at, what sounds like, a supermarket? Honest question, I've never heard of such a construction.
  - rdouble 14y ago
    Costco is like what Makro is in the Netherlands.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
- dgbsco 14y ago
  Split a membership with a friend. Around $40 bucks split two ways.
  - protomyth 13y ago
    I was under the impression that it is against their policy to do that.
w1ntermute 14y ago
> there's one big difference, though. To shop at Costco you have to buy twice as much (plus typically pay membership fees). That step could be too steep for the people most living hand-to-mouth, even though it would save them money within weeks. So there could be sample bias here too. See the article Why Can’t Walmart Be More Like Costco?[0] for more on this. 0: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/11/26/why-can-t-walmart-be-more-like-costco.html http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/11/26/why-can-t-w...
- tptacek 14y ago
  You can often sift through McArdle's post to find the Yglesias or Salmon post she's citing and just read that instead. Here, the analysis seems to boil down to "sure, Walmart could pay every worker $3000/yr more and have Costco's margins, but who cares about a paltry $3000?". The rest of her argument appears to be "I don't know if that would work for Walmart". Neither do I, but "I don't know" isn't a persuasive argument. :)
  - yummyfajitas 14y ago
    Did you even read her article? She gives a very clear reason. Walmart sells 140k skus, sorted on shelves and available in small quantities, and has lots of cashiers so you can get in and out reasonably quickly. Costco sells 4k skus, mostly in bulk, and forces you to wait 20 minutes to leave the store.
    - tptacek 13y ago
      You know what? You're absolutely right. I went down a little wormhole of McArdle-vs-Other-People link following, watched 12(!) minutes of her and Dean Baker going at it on video about whether the fed can reasonably call asset bubbles, and lost my place; I had a different McArdle post in my other window when I wrote this. The irony is, I was particularly poorly served by the advice I offered here, since skipping straight to Yglesias totally screwed me up. Sorry about that.
    - gruseom 13y ago
nathanbarry 14y ago
I had an evening a month ago where I had to return similar items to both WalMart and Costco. Each one should have been really quick, but Costco was very slow (about 30 minutes), With a rather rude cashier. Walmart took just 2 minutes and they were perfectly polite and helpful. Strange that Walmart customer support was 100x better.
- gruseom 14y ago
  No doubt variance swamps our puny personal experiences, but for the little that it's worth I've had the opposite: instant return at Costco no questions asked, and a half hour lineup to return a wrong product I'd just mistakenly bought at Walmart. To be fair to Walmart, though, it wasn't their cashiers' fault. There were only two customers in front of me and both were so obstreperously difficult that it became an amusement to watch what ridiculous thing would happen next. One was returning a shopping cart full of dozens of items of clothing. The other was returning a single can of soup. Soup guy was the harder of the two.
bane 14y ago
I've also noticed, at my local Costcos (there's something like 5 within 30 minutes from my house), that there is a pretty large cadre of very long-term employees there. There's a few employees I recognize going on 10 years of employment there. They're doing something right I think.

by gruseom 14y ago

protomyth 14y ago

The membership is the too steep part for Costco.

malandrew 14y ago
It would be nice if CostCo allowed people of low income to apply for a financial aid in the form of free membership if their income was low enough. It's unfortunate that only the people with greater purchasing power get access to the lowest cost per item unit.
- nijk 14y ago
  Or even a monthly installment.
- rogerbinns 14y ago
  > ... free membership The membership is the per member profit. Costco doesn't mark up items more than 14%. In some states they aren't allowed to require membership to access the pharmacy. If what you proposed was workable, I'd expect groups of people in an area to band together or have a middleman in order to only have one membership and break up bulk items. (And technically there is such a middleman doing their best to lower prices - they are called Walmart.) > ... greater purchasing power get access to the lowest cost ... Same thing happens with the US health system - the uninsured pay the most for exactly the same procedures at the same place. At least in the case of Costco it is economically sensible because buyers purchase a bigger volume and the store has greater throughput. (Costco typically has 4,000 SKUs per store while a normal supermarket will be around 16,000.)
- protomyth 13y ago
  CostCo's profit is the memberships. It is a smart business model that is very successful. It just isn't designed for people who are living hand-to-mouth. Nothing wrong with that, its just how it is.
LogicX 14y ago
One can shop at Costco for a 5% premium on purchases
- protomyth 13y ago
  And that 5% puts Wal-Mart back in competitive range without the stigma of being too poor for a membership.
aerique 14y ago
What is this membership thing one needs to buy at, what sounds like, a supermarket? Honest question, I've never heard of such a construction.
- rdouble 14y ago
  Costco is like what Makro is in the Netherlands.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
dgbsco 14y ago
Split a membership with a friend. Around $40 bucks split two ways.
- protomyth 13y ago
  I was under the impression that it is against their policy to do that.

w1ntermute 14y ago

> there's one big difference, though. To shop at Costco you have to buy twice as much (plus typically pay membership fees). That step could be too steep for the people most living hand-to-mouth, even though it would save them money within weeks. So there could be sample bias here too. See the article Why Can’t Walmart Be More Like Costco?[0] for more on this. 0: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/11/26/why-can-t-walmart-be-more-like-costco.html http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/11/26/why-can-t-w...

tptacek 14y ago
You can often sift through McArdle's post to find the Yglesias or Salmon post she's citing and just read that instead. Here, the analysis seems to boil down to "sure, Walmart could pay every worker $3000/yr more and have Costco's margins, but who cares about a paltry $3000?". The rest of her argument appears to be "I don't know if that would work for Walmart". Neither do I, but "I don't know" isn't a persuasive argument. :)
- yummyfajitas 14y ago
  Did you even read her article? She gives a very clear reason. Walmart sells 140k skus, sorted on shelves and available in small quantities, and has lots of cashiers so you can get in and out reasonably quickly. Costco sells 4k skus, mostly in bulk, and forces you to wait 20 minutes to leave the store.
  - tptacek 13y ago
    You know what? You're absolutely right. I went down a little wormhole of McArdle-vs-Other-People link following, watched 12(!) minutes of her and Dean Baker going at it on video about whether the fed can reasonably call asset bubbles, and lost my place; I had a different McArdle post in my other window when I wrote this. The irony is, I was particularly poorly served by the advice I offered here, since skipping straight to Yglesias totally screwed me up. Sorry about that.
  - gruseom 13y ago

nathanbarry 14y ago

I had an evening a month ago where I had to return similar items to both WalMart and Costco. Each one should have been really quick, but Costco was very slow (about 30 minutes), With a rather rude cashier. Walmart took just 2 minutes and they were perfectly polite and helpful. Strange that Walmart customer support was 100x better.

gruseom 14y ago
No doubt variance swamps our puny personal experiences, but for the little that it's worth I've had the opposite: instant return at Costco no questions asked, and a half hour lineup to return a wrong product I'd just mistakenly bought at Walmart. To be fair to Walmart, though, it wasn't their cashiers' fault. There were only two customers in front of me and both were so obstreperously difficult that it became an amusement to watch what ridiculous thing would happen next. One was returning a shopping cart full of dozens of items of clothing. The other was returning a single can of soup. Soup guy was the harder of the two.

bane 14y ago

I've also noticed, at my local Costcos (there's something like 5 within 30 minutes from my house), that there is a pretty large cadre of very long-term employees there. There's a few employees I recognize going on 10 years of employment there. They're doing something right I think.