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You can't tell if it was a simple "whoops, I thought this question belonged to a problem category X, and I overlooked that it does not" typo-like mistake, meani

You can't tell if it was a simple "whoops, I thought this question belonged to a problem category X, and I overlooked that it does not" typo-like mistake, meaning the teacher would instantly realize his/her mistake if you point it. Or if they wouldn't get it even after you try to explain it to them (what you're trying to imply here). When grading things, ppl usually face hundreds of copies at a time and it's very tedious. It's easy to scrutinize a single highlighted problem that someone got wrong in hindsight, not realizing the person might've only dedicated 7 seconds to this problem out of 1000 others that were graded correctly. I personally try to give them the benefit of doubt and assume best case scenario (but I also understand it might not be).

downandout 14y ago
True, but I think that maybe 1/3 or more of the students would have answered this correctly. At some point during the grading process, you would think the teacher would begin to wonder why all of these students would have answered such a seemingly simple question "incorrectly" and take a second look.
- DanBC 14y ago
  ...because 'trick' questions are (at least, were) part of math. The justification is to make sure people read, and understand, the question.
  - mratzloff 14y ago
    It's not a trick question, just a bad one. It doesn't include enough information to give an informed answer. Telepathy is required to suss out the author's intention. In the real world, you can ask more questions and get a more complete picture. On an exam, generally you must accept what you are given.
doorhammer 14y ago
I agree with this. I think it's a pretty decent example of the fundamental attribution error. The context of the problem clearly sets it up as one of those "everyone gets this wrong, so make sure you think a second" situations (I had to think a second, anyway). I'd extend that to the publisher as well, though (or at least it's individual employees creating the book). First off, assuming the answer key has "15", I'm not in any way saying it's okay that we have text books teaching clearly incorrect information; I'm also not in the know on how 3rd grade math textbooks are created. That said, I've been in tons of jobs where you're expected to produce a crap ton of work at a breakneck pace and god help you if you want five minutes to check your work for dumb errors, because y'aint gettin it. Of course, it could also easily be said that this is also the publishers fault for creating a working environment that isn't sufficiently rigorous or overburdens the employees.
- jodrellblank 14y ago
  On the topic of how math textbooks are created, you might like this commentary from Richard Feynman when he served on a school-math-textbook recommendation committee: http://www.textbookleague.org/103feyn.htm http://www.textbookleague.org/103feyn.htm
  - doorhammer 14y ago
    That was an awesome read. Thanks for the article. It makes me think about how corporations work a lot of the time.
keithpeter 14y ago
"When grading things, ppl usually face hundreds of copies at a time and it's very tedious." Oh, yes, been there and I have the video. Don't you work from pre-written and checked marking schemes?
- noamsml 14y ago
  It depends. In algorithm classes, there are often many right answers, including ones you haven't thought of before. Same goes for most college math.
  - keithpeter 14y ago
    "In algorithm classes, there are often many right answers" I accept this, but I'm assuming the original algorithm that a creative student produces will pass tests/produce same output as the 'textbook' solution. My understanding of the original article is that a correct final answer was marked wrong. "Same goes for most college math." Absolutely. My favourite from 16+ maths (GCSE in UK) is the area of a trapezium. Most find the mean length of the two parallel sides and multiply that by the distance between the parallel sides (so make a rectangle of the same area). About 1 in 15 break the trapezium up into two triangles and add the areas.
    - mkopinsky 14y ago
      The third option would be to chop off both "wings" and consider it as a square plus two triangles. That is often my instinct when I forget to do it with the mean length of the parallels.
yew 14y ago
I'd be less worried if this seemed like a one-off thing (or if math professors were obligated to drive exclusively on bridges designed by their own students, heh). As it is, this is one case among many (not all about grade schoolers and not all 'stories on the Internet' by a long shot) and the professor doesn't always acknowledge they were wrong. Speaking as an engineer, the work is hard enough when you do understand the math.

downandout 14y ago

True, but I think that maybe 1/3 or more of the students would have answered this correctly. At some point during the grading process, you would think the teacher would begin to wonder why all of these students would have answered such a seemingly simple question "incorrectly" and take a second look.

DanBC 14y ago
...because 'trick' questions are (at least, were) part of math. The justification is to make sure people read, and understand, the question.
- mratzloff 14y ago
  It's not a trick question, just a bad one. It doesn't include enough information to give an informed answer. Telepathy is required to suss out the author's intention. In the real world, you can ask more questions and get a more complete picture. On an exam, generally you must accept what you are given.

doorhammer 14y ago

I agree with this. I think it's a pretty decent example of the fundamental attribution error. The context of the problem clearly sets it up as one of those "everyone gets this wrong, so make sure you think a second" situations (I had to think a second, anyway). I'd extend that to the publisher as well, though (or at least it's individual employees creating the book). First off, assuming the answer key has "15", I'm not in any way saying it's okay that we have text books teaching clearly incorrect information; I'm also not in the know on how 3rd grade math textbooks are created. That said, I've been in tons of jobs where you're expected to produce a crap ton of work at a breakneck pace and god help you if you want five minutes to check your work for dumb errors, because y'aint gettin it. Of course, it could also easily be said that this is also the publishers fault for creating a working environment that isn't sufficiently rigorous or overburdens the employees.

jodrellblank 14y ago
On the topic of how math textbooks are created, you might like this commentary from Richard Feynman when he served on a school-math-textbook recommendation committee: http://www.textbookleague.org/103feyn.htm http://www.textbookleague.org/103feyn.htm
- doorhammer 14y ago
  That was an awesome read. Thanks for the article. It makes me think about how corporations work a lot of the time.

keithpeter 14y ago

"When grading things, ppl usually face hundreds of copies at a time and it's very tedious." Oh, yes, been there and I have the video. Don't you work from pre-written and checked marking schemes?

noamsml 14y ago
It depends. In algorithm classes, there are often many right answers, including ones you haven't thought of before. Same goes for most college math.
- keithpeter 14y ago
  "In algorithm classes, there are often many right answers" I accept this, but I'm assuming the original algorithm that a creative student produces will pass tests/produce same output as the 'textbook' solution. My understanding of the original article is that a correct final answer was marked wrong. "Same goes for most college math." Absolutely. My favourite from 16+ maths (GCSE in UK) is the area of a trapezium. Most find the mean length of the two parallel sides and multiply that by the distance between the parallel sides (so make a rectangle of the same area). About 1 in 15 break the trapezium up into two triangles and add the areas.
  - mkopinsky 14y ago
    The third option would be to chop off both "wings" and consider it as a square plus two triangles. That is often my instinct when I forget to do it with the mean length of the parallels.

yew 14y ago

I'd be less worried if this seemed like a one-off thing (or if math professors were obligated to drive exclusively on bridges designed by their own students, heh). As it is, this is one case among many (not all about grade schoolers and not all 'stories on the Internet' by a long shot) and the professor doesn't always acknowledge they were wrong. Speaking as an engineer, the work is hard enough when you do understand the math.