9 ms·
Help Kiera with her legal bills
- TallGuyShort 13y agoIf the way this incident is described is accurate I definitely would like to support Kiera, but it's all been very one-sided so far. I'm yet to see anyone detail what the chemicals were or what the setting was in which this occurred. Those are important details to understand in order to tell if this really was something reckless or if it was just a proper science experiment. Anyone know of such sources?
- DannyBee 13y agoI can't find the charging/etc documents that would give you the other side (or at least, some small part of it), but this may be because she's a juvenile (none of the sources mention if they are trying to charge her as an adult).
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- dserodio 13y agoThis post says she'll be charged as an adult: http://hiphopandpolitics.wordpress.com/2013/05/01/the-case-around-fla-teen-kiera-wilmot-is-part-of-a-bigger-more-disturbing-pattern/ http://hiphopandpolitics.wordpress.com/2013/05/01/the-case-a...
- uvdiv 13y agoHere's the police report: http://www.scribd.com/doc/138927259/Wilmot-Arrest http://www.scribd.com/doc/138927259/Wilmot-Arrest The chemicals were aluminum foil and hydrochloric acid. The setting was near an outdoors gazebo on school grounds. The context was, in her first version, a "science fair project"; in her second version, she was following instructions given by a friend, not aware it would explode.
- rdl 13y agoWow, the government's case, even if you accept it as true, doesn't seem to be a serious crime. She either was conducting a "science experiment", or screwing around with a small amount of chemicals to make a small bomb without threatening anyone, neither of which should be felonies. A one-day suspension for doing this unsafely seems like about the limit of what's reasonable, and even that is questionable. The focus should be on making sure she knows about the accidental injury possible from this, not punishing her particularly, and encouraging her to continue with her interest in chemistry. (The number of people I know who went to top-tier schools later who did crazy things much more dangerous than this, such as making fougasse, 5-10 pound black powder pipe bombs, ANFO, etc., is pretty high. They were all white or asian, though, which seems to be what this is about, as well as doing it off school property.) I was initially a bit more suspicious of the story, assuming she was doing something actually dangerous and then explained it as "a science experiment" when caught, which clearly doesn't seem to be the case.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- mcherm 13y agoWhat you are missing is the policies of "zero-tolerance". Worried that lenient individuals might fail to enforce rules strictly enough and wanting to make a clear and unambiguous statement about behavior that should not be tolerated, many (especially schools) are setting up "zero-tolerance policies". These say that if you commit a certain offense, then certain consequences will be imposed regardless of mitigating circumstances. In this case, she did (even according to her own admission) create an explosive on school grounds. Now, the "explosive" was extremely mild (hydrogen gas can make a loud "popping" sound), she may not have realized that would be the effect, there was no malicious intent, and no one was hurt. But mitigating circumstances don't count with zero-tolerance policies, so she must be expelled. The prosecution as an adult for felonies... for that there is ABSOLUTELY no excuse. I only hope that these threatened prosecutions do not materialize.
- marshray 13y agoIt said toilet bowl cleaner http://www.theworkscleans.com/toiletcleaner.html http://www.theworkscleans.com/toiletcleaner.html and aluminum foil. Here's the MSDS data sheet for "The Works" http://www.chemtura.com/msd/external/e/result/report.jsp?P_LANGU=E&P_SYS=6&P_SSN=67698&P_REP=00000000000000000017&P_RES=7590 http://www.chemtura.com/msd/external/e/result/report.jsp?P_L... IIRC, that combination should release H2 and a little heat, but not enough heat to ignite anything. So the bottle basically went "fizz" and "pop". Some of those plastic bottles can make a loud pop.
- gailees 13y agoFinally someone is actually doing something about this!
- rjvir 13y agoRegardless of her outcome with her current school, people in the future will respect her curiosity. This experience could shape into an awesome college application essay.
- OGinparadise 13y agoRegardless of her outcome with her current school, people in the future will respect her curiosity. This experience could shape into an awesome college application essay. Not sure if that's the case if she is branded a felon /criminal. They put those applications on a different pile for "other student's safety concerns" and all. Once she is labeled, very few might care that she got a raw deal.
- sukuriant 13y agoAnd a felony record is, in many cases, an instant stop for many employers, even if the felony is completely unrelated to their future job
- mapt 13y agoAnd, apparently, for many colleges.
- marshray 13y agoI thought experimenting with mixing household chemicals was just ordinary. When we were kids we were encouraged to be interested in chemistry. Back then we had these things called "chemistry sets" for kids that contained actual chemicals. Looking at the modern ones http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Achemistry%20set http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=i%3Aaps%2C... it doesn't look like chemistry sets come with much more than stuff to make pH measurements (if you supply the vinegar).
- ramchip 13y agoIt would make it very difficult to study (or work) overseas, at least.
- guelo 13y agoWho is Angelle Stromeyer and why should I trust that the money will go to Kiera Wilmot?
- ajaymehta 13y agoCrowdtilt's official twitter account has posted that the campaign is verified [1], and we'll handle disbursements of the funds directly to Kiera's family (I'm a representative). Angelle is a Crowdtilt user who was touched by Kiera's story, and wanted to do something about it! [1] https://twitter.com/Crowdtilt/status/330475205183012864 https://twitter.com/Crowdtilt/status/330475205183012864
- psutor 13y agoHi Ajay - I just sent you an email.
- vl 13y agoWhy there is no anonymous donations with guest account? I want to contribute to the cause, but don't care about letting "the campaign admin and others know who is making this contribution".
- new299 13y agoContributed, but I too would have like to have seen an anonymous contribution option, also I'd rather not have to use my creditcard directly, either Paypal or (ideally) Bitcoin.
- greghinch 13y agoTo all the people who are towing the "this was inappropriate/unsafe behavior and she deserves her punishment" line, fine, but at most a suspension from school would seem fitting. Expulsion and 2 felony counts is ridiculous. Ruining a young girls life because of a mistake in which no one was hurt, whether she should have known or not, is not the answer.
- InclinedPlane 13y agoTo put this in perspective, she's charged with possessing and discharging a weapon on school property. That is a class 3 felony in Florida, if she is tried as an adult then she could receive up to 5 years in prison. Compare that to the Steubenville rapists who received sentences of one to two years. And here nobody was harmed nor was there even a high likelihood of anyone being harmed. It's just ridiculous.
- michaelhoffman 13y agoI also think that the charges here are too severe, and the Steubenville rape sentences were too light. But they are not comparable. The rapists could have received far more than two years and Kiera Wilmot will probably receive less than five.
- vlad_k 13y agoEven a day would be an absolute travesty of justice for this. She's getting the book thrown at her, not for reasons of safety, or education, but simply because the book exists to be thrown. Yes, she did something stupid. But if stupidity were a crime, we'd all be doing time. I can't see how society would be safer... Or better off, by destroying this woman's future.
- psutor 13y agoThis is a great way to put it. I agree, this is only happening because administrators see a way to use their "book." Disclaimer: the same thing happened to me: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5637272 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5637272
- btilly 13y agoI thought of this with the Aaron Schwartz case. This makes me think of it again. I'd love it if there was a service named something like Karma. When something like this happens, I could register a name, a reason, and a frequency. With no more than that frequency I'll be sent information on stories involving that name, with my reason attached. The idea is that in a case like this I could search, find that the prosecutor in the case is "Tammy Glotfelty", and until I lost interest in the case would get updated on what she's doing. That way if she ever, for instance, ran for election I could be reminded, and know that it is time to donate to her opponent in said race.
- gmurphy 13y agoYou could use Google Alerts (or equivalent), which gets you the name and frequency, then embed the reason in the search string in a way that won't match anything. e.g: Tammy Glotfelty -"reason: keira science experiment"
- JoeKM 13y agoThe negative comments here are a disheartening reminder of the Aaron Swartz defense fund thread before Aaron's death: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4529484 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4529484 The negativity was unwarranted against Aaron. It is unwarranted against Kiera. Many of those posters apologized after Aaron's suicide, confessing ignorance of his case. Aaron's life was cast into perpetual depression from the extraordinary charges mercilessly sought after by U.S. Attorney Carmen Ortiz. Then Aaron killed himself. Kiera is facing a nightmare not unlike Aaron's, but we can help.
- tiredofcareer 13y agoI'm not trolling. Why does this girl deserve attention? Why did she get it? I genuinely can't come up with a reason. Are you guys prepared to contribute to the legal funds of everyone who is expelled and charged with crimes for unfair reasons? Because this is absolutely not out of ordinary, and I've personally seen a 12-year-old expelled and nearly charged with a crime because his mother packed him a steak knife without realizing the school's zero-tolerance policy. I wish this girl the best and she deserves a fair trial, but sometimes I wonder if society's tack of showering money on people's legal fund merely because they made news puts incentives in the right places... If you down vote, can you explain why? I'd like to have an objective conversation about this without drive-by downvotes to shut me up.
- jonathanjaeger 13y agoThere are grave injustices every day in this country (or any country, really). It's impossible to give everything the attention it deserves without solving systemic issues. However, that doesn't mean people should ignore any one particular event because other bad events happen in the world too.
- tiredofcareer 13y agoIf you notice, I never advocated for ignoring it. I wondered why we're aware of it in the first place.
- marshray 13y agoThe campaign is currently at $1332. That hardly counts as "showering money" upon someone who is facing two felony charges and needing legal representation. This girl does not deserve a fair trial. She deserves an apology. The responsible staff at the state attorney's office deserve to be laughed out of office.
- tiredofcareer 13y agoAnd you reached that conclusion based on what evidence? Good thing we don't need evidence to determine guilt in a court of law, since it sounds like you've got the findings figured out already based on what you've read in the news and in statements. I'm not saying anybody is lying. There is just usually more to these stories.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- desireco42 13y agoHow about instead of us polling in the money, we make those who sued her to drop the charges, apologize and let the kid continue school like she should. She can also promise to do her science experiments only during science classes.
- gruseom 13y agoIt's true that we don't have enough information to tell what was really going on, but I donated anyway. What the kid appears to have done—mixed stuff together to see what would happen—falls in the "moderate" part of the spectrum of things that curious teenagers do. A lot of significant contributors to society, not to mention a lot of people on this site, have similar episodes in their past. I figure the least we can give her is the benefit of the doubt, and we live in a system where the benefit of the doubt has a price: adequate legal representation. Let her have a good lawyer and let's see how long those felony charges last. One thing's for sure, that lawyer will be able to call on a long list of prestigious expert witnesses.
- rayiner 13y agoBetter would be finding a lawyer in Florida willing to take this pro bono. Maybe figure out a way to countersue the school.
- omarrr 13y agoAt least 50% of the teenagers in this world who have access to products X and Y would mix them up if somebody told them that mixing X and Y will create an explosion. That's the nature of being a teenager. As far as I'm concerned teenagers are showing more signs of mental health than adults these days.
- byandyphillips 13y agoCharges dropped: https://www.change.org/petitions/state-attorney-jerry-hill-drop-charges-against-kiera-wilmot?utm_campaign=twitter_link_action_box&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=share_petition https://www.change.org/petitions/state-attorney-jerry-hill-d...
- np422 13y agoWhen I was a kid/teenager I blew up everything from large condensators, old TV sets, pet-bottles and one time there was even a broken window. I didn't end up as a criminal or a terrorist .... I got and engineering degree. Society need to reacquire common sense and a sense of humour.
- duncan_bayne 13y agoI've contributed. I once shocked my high school physics teacher (literally) by messing with an electric motor we'd made in class. If I'd done that in Kiera's school I'd probably have been waterboarded by the principal or something.
- kmfrk 13y agoEven if you still think she's guilty as sin, ask yourself whether you trust the American justice system enough to let her go through the ringer without financial support.
- antihero 13y agoSurely for crimes there has to be motive.
- antihero 13y agoSeriously though, which federal could sleep at night nay live with themselves for prosecuting on this one?
- SaraRhiannon 13y agohttp://www.change.org/petitions/state-attorney-jerry-hill-drop-charges-against-kiera-wilmot http://www.change.org/petitions/state-attorney-jerry-hill-dr... to anyone who thinks Kiera's charges should be dropped, sign this petition on change.org...it still needs over 5,000 signatures. we have to save her.
- dlitz 13y agoUpdated info about the case, from Kiera's lawyer: http://www.businessinsider.com/kiera-wilmot-lawyer-hoping-to-prevent-felony-charges-from-being-filed-2013-5 http://www.businessinsider.com/kiera-wilmot-lawyer-hoping-to...
- argumentum 13y agoDonated. I often wonder what the motivation is behind charges like these. It's often political, as in the Swartz case. But I think usually, it's simply that the DAs get satisfaction from being bullies.