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Are you saying Switzerland is not part of the "first world"? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland#Gun_crime https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/

Are you saying Switzerland is not part of the "first world"? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland#Gun_crime https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland#Gu... Germany invaded surrounding territories in WWII, but left Switzerland alone.

stcredzero 13y ago
Here in the US, I wish we'd have a "well regulated militia" to the same extent that Switzerland does. All able-bodied men do a bit of military service, and it's a yearly family event for them to go and update their training on their firearm. What we have here in the US seems more like a consumerist culture designed to encourage the buying of products and accessories. It's to the point where the word "militia" is associated with racists and kooks. Not "well-regulated" at all. > Germany invaded surrounding territories in WWII, but left Switzerland alone. May have something to do with the preponderance of blond-haired blue-eyed people there.
- vy8vWJlco 13y ago
  I think there were a number of factors also, including economic and others, but I don't know that hair and eyes were ultimately very big ones - since those didn't seem to help surrounding areas like Austria and the Netherlands. The map of the territories at the end of WWII just amazes me with Switzerland standing out almost like an island: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Second_world_war_europe_1941-1942_map_en.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Second_world_war_europe_1... There was also a report in the mid 80s penned by, among others, former General George S. Patton (who was active during WWII)... "In short, Switzerland is an armed bunker." (PDF page 8, https://docs.google.com/viewer?embedded=true&url=http://www.constitution.org/mil/swiss_rpt.pdf https://docs.google.com/viewer?embedded=true&url=http://... )
  - rdouble 13y ago
    John McPhee's book "La Place de la Concorde Suisse" is excellent if you are interested in the militia system of Switzerland. http://www.amazon.com/Place-Concorde-Suisse-John-McPhee/dp/0374519323 http://www.amazon.com/Place-Concorde-Suisse-John-McPhee/dp/0...
- bmelton 13y ago
  We have a few 'well-regulated' militias in the United States. The Coast Guard, the Army Reserves, and the rest of us. 10 USC chapter 13 defines the militia as, basically, all able-bodied men aged 17-45, and women's suffrage has effectively expanded that definition to include women. We don't have conscripted military service at the moment though.
  - stcredzero 13y ago
    > We have a few 'well-regulated' militias in the United States. The Coast Guard, the Army Reserves, When I was growing up, I understood the Coast Guard to be one of the 4 branches of service. > Army Reserves, I would allow that the reserves and guards (state and national) would fit a meaningful definition of "well regulated militia." > and the rest of us. 10 USC chapter 13 defines the militia as, basically, all able-bodied men aged 17-45 Uh, yeah. This makes as much sense as defining all left handed people between the ages of 22 and 27 1/2 as "pinch-hitters." A definition doesn't make it so. I could see how this might be seen as a hot-button for politics, but the 2nd amendment says that arms are necessary for a militia, not that militias are necessary for ownership of arms, though I would say that this is true from a practical perspective, as opposed to a rights context. Ever since Sandy Hook, I've been watching videos and reading articles from all sides of this issue. One thing I've taken away from some pro-gun videos is that there are a lot of dangerously untrained and ignorant gun owners out there. Yes, you read that correctly: from watching pro-gun videos. You can find lots of references to kooky things people say at gun shops and dangerous things people do at such shops and gun ranges. I say again: what we have in the US overall is a consumerist culture. To be fair, there are organizations that do a proper job of creating a culture of respect and knowledge for such weapons, but it seems to me that we don't have enough of this. Another thing I've discovered is that lots of gun legislation is just as wacky and ill conceived as legislation covering reverse engineering, hacking, and the internet. (SOPA, CISPA, DMCA...) In both cases it's formulated by politicians who don't properly know the subject matter as a response to a demagogic hot-button issue, or at the behest of corporate interests. To me, "gun_owners = bad" is just as much of a problem as "democrats = socialists".
    - bmelton 13y ago
- hga 13y ago
  From memory (read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Tannenbaum http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Tannenbaum for a start, http://www.amazon.com/Target-Switzerland-Swiss-Armed-Neutrality/dp/1885119534/ http://www.amazon.com/Target-Switzerland-Swiss-Armed-Neutral... and http://www.amazon.com/SWISS-NAZIS-Alpine-Republic-Survived/dp/1935149342 http://www.amazon.com/SWISS-NAZIS-Alpine-Republic-Survived/d... for details), the General Staff figured taking Switzerland would break 80 divisions, a cost the Nazis simply couldn't afford. Are the Swiss of French and Italian stock preponderantly "blond-haired blue-eyed"? If not, that argument tends to fail, although I suppose the Nazis did prefer killing Slavs et. al. in the east to Western Europeans. (ADDED: see the above Wikipedia link for how Hitler viewed the German Swiss who preferred their French, Italian and Romansh citizens over the greater German volk.) "It's to the point where the word "militia" is associated with racists and kooks." That has a lot more to do with demagogic politicians, including one in particular who had a dicey re-election coming up, than anything real. Amplified of course by a media who see all gun owners as the Other. "Not "well-regulated" at all." It's a nice ideal, perhaps, certainly a necessity if you live in a bad neighborhood like the Swiss, but history, going right back to our revolutionary war, tells us it's profoundly not in the American character, with exceptions here and there.

stcredzero 13y ago

Here in the US, I wish we'd have a "well regulated militia" to the same extent that Switzerland does. All able-bodied men do a bit of military service, and it's a yearly family event for them to go and update their training on their firearm. What we have here in the US seems more like a consumerist culture designed to encourage the buying of products and accessories. It's to the point where the word "militia" is associated with racists and kooks. Not "well-regulated" at all. > Germany invaded surrounding territories in WWII, but left Switzerland alone. May have something to do with the preponderance of blond-haired blue-eyed people there.

vy8vWJlco 13y ago
I think there were a number of factors also, including economic and others, but I don't know that hair and eyes were ultimately very big ones - since those didn't seem to help surrounding areas like Austria and the Netherlands. The map of the territories at the end of WWII just amazes me with Switzerland standing out almost like an island: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Second_world_war_europe_1941-1942_map_en.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Second_world_war_europe_1... There was also a report in the mid 80s penned by, among others, former General George S. Patton (who was active during WWII)... "In short, Switzerland is an armed bunker." (PDF page 8, https://docs.google.com/viewer?embedded=true&url=http://www.constitution.org/mil/swiss_rpt.pdf https://docs.google.com/viewer?embedded=true&url=http://... )
- rdouble 13y ago
  John McPhee's book "La Place de la Concorde Suisse" is excellent if you are interested in the militia system of Switzerland. http://www.amazon.com/Place-Concorde-Suisse-John-McPhee/dp/0374519323 http://www.amazon.com/Place-Concorde-Suisse-John-McPhee/dp/0...
bmelton 13y ago
We have a few 'well-regulated' militias in the United States. The Coast Guard, the Army Reserves, and the rest of us. 10 USC chapter 13 defines the militia as, basically, all able-bodied men aged 17-45, and women's suffrage has effectively expanded that definition to include women. We don't have conscripted military service at the moment though.
- stcredzero 13y ago
  > We have a few 'well-regulated' militias in the United States. The Coast Guard, the Army Reserves, When I was growing up, I understood the Coast Guard to be one of the 4 branches of service. > Army Reserves, I would allow that the reserves and guards (state and national) would fit a meaningful definition of "well regulated militia." > and the rest of us. 10 USC chapter 13 defines the militia as, basically, all able-bodied men aged 17-45 Uh, yeah. This makes as much sense as defining all left handed people between the ages of 22 and 27 1/2 as "pinch-hitters." A definition doesn't make it so. I could see how this might be seen as a hot-button for politics, but the 2nd amendment says that arms are necessary for a militia, not that militias are necessary for ownership of arms, though I would say that this is true from a practical perspective, as opposed to a rights context. Ever since Sandy Hook, I've been watching videos and reading articles from all sides of this issue. One thing I've taken away from some pro-gun videos is that there are a lot of dangerously untrained and ignorant gun owners out there. Yes, you read that correctly: from watching pro-gun videos. You can find lots of references to kooky things people say at gun shops and dangerous things people do at such shops and gun ranges. I say again: what we have in the US overall is a consumerist culture. To be fair, there are organizations that do a proper job of creating a culture of respect and knowledge for such weapons, but it seems to me that we don't have enough of this. Another thing I've discovered is that lots of gun legislation is just as wacky and ill conceived as legislation covering reverse engineering, hacking, and the internet. (SOPA, CISPA, DMCA...) In both cases it's formulated by politicians who don't properly know the subject matter as a response to a demagogic hot-button issue, or at the behest of corporate interests. To me, "gun_owners = bad" is just as much of a problem as "democrats = socialists".
  - bmelton 13y ago
hga 13y ago
From memory (read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Tannenbaum http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Tannenbaum for a start, http://www.amazon.com/Target-Switzerland-Swiss-Armed-Neutrality/dp/1885119534/ http://www.amazon.com/Target-Switzerland-Swiss-Armed-Neutral... and http://www.amazon.com/SWISS-NAZIS-Alpine-Republic-Survived/dp/1935149342 http://www.amazon.com/SWISS-NAZIS-Alpine-Republic-Survived/d... for details), the General Staff figured taking Switzerland would break 80 divisions, a cost the Nazis simply couldn't afford. Are the Swiss of French and Italian stock preponderantly "blond-haired blue-eyed"? If not, that argument tends to fail, although I suppose the Nazis did prefer killing Slavs et. al. in the east to Western Europeans. (ADDED: see the above Wikipedia link for how Hitler viewed the German Swiss who preferred their French, Italian and Romansh citizens over the greater German volk.) "It's to the point where the word "militia" is associated with racists and kooks." That has a lot more to do with demagogic politicians, including one in particular who had a dicey re-election coming up, than anything real. Amplified of course by a media who see all gun owners as the Other. "Not "well-regulated" at all." It's a nice ideal, perhaps, certainly a necessity if you live in a bad neighborhood like the Swiss, but history, going right back to our revolutionary war, tells us it's profoundly not in the American character, with exceptions here and there.