6 ms·

Yeah this is a common misconception. Guns cause violence and less guns correlates with less violent crime. Just remember, people are creatures of opportunity.

vy8vWJlco 13y ago
IMHO, disarmament creates that opportunity for abuse. I've never seen someone take advantage of the strong.
- reader5000 13y ago
  Every first world civilian population but a small minority of the US is "disarmed", none of them are being "abused".
  - vy8vWJlco 13y ago
    Are you saying Switzerland is not part of the "first world"? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland#Gun_crime https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland#Gu... Germany invaded surrounding territories in WWII, but left Switzerland alone.
    - stcredzero 13y ago
      Here in the US, I wish we'd have a "well regulated militia" to the same extent that Switzerland does. All able-bodied men do a bit of military service, and it's a yearly family event for them to go and update their training on their firearm. What we have here in the US seems more like a consumerist culture designed to encourage the buying of products and accessories. It's to the point where the word "militia" is associated with racists and kooks. Not "well-regulated" at all. > Germany invaded surrounding territories in WWII, but left Switzerland alone. May have something to do with the preponderance of blond-haired blue-eyed people there.
      - vy8vWJlco 13y ago
        I think there were a number of factors also, including economic and others, but I don't know that hair and eyes were ultimately very big ones - since those didn't seem to help surrounding areas like Austria and the Netherlands. The map of the territories at the end of WWII just amazes me with Switzerland standing out almost like an island: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Second_world_war_europe_1941-1942_map_en.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Second_world_war_europe_1... There was also a report in the mid 80s penned by, among others, former General George S. Patton (who was active during WWII)... "In short, Switzerland is an armed bunker." (PDF page 8, https://docs.google.com/viewer?embedded=true&url=http://www.constitution.org/mil/swiss_rpt.pdf https://docs.google.com/viewer?embedded=true&url=http://... )
        rdouble 13y ago
        John McPhee's book "La Place de la Concorde Suisse" is excellent if you are interested in the militia system of Switzerland. http://www.amazon.com/Place-Concorde-Suisse-John-McPhee/dp/0374519323 http://www.amazon.com/Place-Concorde-Suisse-John-McPhee/dp/0...
      - bmelton 13y ago
        We have a few 'well-regulated' militias in the United States. The Coast Guard, the Army Reserves, and the rest of us. 10 USC chapter 13 defines the militia as, basically, all able-bodied men aged 17-45, and women's suffrage has effectively expanded that definition to include women. We don't have conscripted military service at the moment though.
        stcredzero 13y ago
        > We have a few 'well-regulated' militias in the United States. The Coast Guard, the Army Reserves, When I was growing up, I understood the Coast Guard to be one of the 4 branches of service. > Army Reserves, I would allow that the reserves and guards (state and national) would fit a meaningful definition of "well regulated militia." > and the rest of us. 10 USC chapter 13 defines the militia as, basically, all able-bodied men aged 17-45 Uh, yeah. This makes as much sense as defining all left handed people between the ages of 22 and 27 1/2 as "pinch-hitters." A definition doesn't make it so. I could see how this might be seen as a hot-button for politics, but the 2nd amendment says that arms are necessary for a militia, not that militias are necessary for ownership of arms, though I would say that this is true from a practical perspective, as opposed to a rights context. Ever since Sandy Hook, I've been watching videos and reading articles from all sides of this issue. One thing I've taken away from some pro-gun videos is that there are a lot of dangerously untrained and ignorant gun owners out there. Yes, you read that correctly: from watching pro-gun videos. You can find lots of references to kooky things people say at gun shops and dangerous things people do at such shops and gun ranges. I say again: what we have in the US overall is a consumerist culture. To be fair, there are organizations that do a proper job of creating a culture of respect and knowledge for such weapons, but it seems to me that we don't have enough of this. Another thing I've discovered is that lots of gun legislation is just as wacky and ill conceived as legislation covering reverse engineering, hacking, and the internet. (SOPA, CISPA, DMCA...) In both cases it's formulated by politicians who don't properly know the subject matter as a response to a demagogic hot-button issue, or at the behest of corporate interests. To me, "gun_owners = bad" is just as much of a problem as "democrats = socialists".
  - gyardley 13y ago
    Uh-huh. Look, within living memory of people I've shared a siddur with at synagogue, a decidedly first-world population attempted to try and stuff my entire people up a crematorium stack. And people wonder why I'm a life member of the NRA.
    - reader5000 13y ago
      I also wonder, since if there is a "next Hitler" he's almost assuredly going to be produced by anti-government, anti-"banker" gun culture.
      - gyardley 13y ago
        I don't see the connection between being anti-banker and the NRA at all - being anti-banker is generally a left-liberal political position, a feeling more at home at Occupy Wall Street. I'm going to assume you didn't bring up "bankers" just because I'm Jewish. The rest of what you said was equally nonsensical - really, just a slur against gun owners. Do you really think the future leader of an authoritarian, genocidal state apparatus would be anti-government?
        reader5000 13y ago
        Anti-unregulated banking is a left-liberal position. But lack of regulation isn't what I hear when I listen to gun culture complaining about "liberal elites" in Washington and "bankers" on Wall Street. Is that necessarily anti-semitism? No. But you brought up Hitler, not me. >Do you really think the future leader of an authoritarian, genocidal state apparatus would be anti-government? Most uninformed thing I've read today. You might want to start here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_Hall_Putsch http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_Hall_Putsch
        Turing_Machine 13y ago
        That would be the one carried out by the National Socialist Party, yes? Just because someone told you that the Nazis were "right wing" doesn't mean they have anything in common with the other groups someone told are "right wing". "Right wing" and "left wing" are utterly meaningless except as terms of abuse. Edit: What, in specific, does (say) the Libertarian Party have in common with the Nazi Party?
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

vy8vWJlco 13y ago

IMHO, disarmament creates that opportunity for abuse. I've never seen someone take advantage of the strong.

reader5000 13y ago
Every first world civilian population but a small minority of the US is "disarmed", none of them are being "abused".
- vy8vWJlco 13y ago
  Are you saying Switzerland is not part of the "first world"? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland#Gun_crime https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland#Gu... Germany invaded surrounding territories in WWII, but left Switzerland alone.
  - stcredzero 13y ago
    Here in the US, I wish we'd have a "well regulated militia" to the same extent that Switzerland does. All able-bodied men do a bit of military service, and it's a yearly family event for them to go and update their training on their firearm. What we have here in the US seems more like a consumerist culture designed to encourage the buying of products and accessories. It's to the point where the word "militia" is associated with racists and kooks. Not "well-regulated" at all. > Germany invaded surrounding territories in WWII, but left Switzerland alone. May have something to do with the preponderance of blond-haired blue-eyed people there.
    - vy8vWJlco 13y ago
      I think there were a number of factors also, including economic and others, but I don't know that hair and eyes were ultimately very big ones - since those didn't seem to help surrounding areas like Austria and the Netherlands. The map of the territories at the end of WWII just amazes me with Switzerland standing out almost like an island: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Second_world_war_europe_1941-1942_map_en.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Second_world_war_europe_1... There was also a report in the mid 80s penned by, among others, former General George S. Patton (who was active during WWII)... "In short, Switzerland is an armed bunker." (PDF page 8, https://docs.google.com/viewer?embedded=true&url=http://www.constitution.org/mil/swiss_rpt.pdf https://docs.google.com/viewer?embedded=true&url=http://... )
      - rdouble 13y ago
        John McPhee's book "La Place de la Concorde Suisse" is excellent if you are interested in the militia system of Switzerland. http://www.amazon.com/Place-Concorde-Suisse-John-McPhee/dp/0374519323 http://www.amazon.com/Place-Concorde-Suisse-John-McPhee/dp/0...
    - bmelton 13y ago
      We have a few 'well-regulated' militias in the United States. The Coast Guard, the Army Reserves, and the rest of us. 10 USC chapter 13 defines the militia as, basically, all able-bodied men aged 17-45, and women's suffrage has effectively expanded that definition to include women. We don't have conscripted military service at the moment though.
      - stcredzero 13y ago
        > We have a few 'well-regulated' militias in the United States. The Coast Guard, the Army Reserves, When I was growing up, I understood the Coast Guard to be one of the 4 branches of service. > Army Reserves, I would allow that the reserves and guards (state and national) would fit a meaningful definition of "well regulated militia." > and the rest of us. 10 USC chapter 13 defines the militia as, basically, all able-bodied men aged 17-45 Uh, yeah. This makes as much sense as defining all left handed people between the ages of 22 and 27 1/2 as "pinch-hitters." A definition doesn't make it so. I could see how this might be seen as a hot-button for politics, but the 2nd amendment says that arms are necessary for a militia, not that militias are necessary for ownership of arms, though I would say that this is true from a practical perspective, as opposed to a rights context. Ever since Sandy Hook, I've been watching videos and reading articles from all sides of this issue. One thing I've taken away from some pro-gun videos is that there are a lot of dangerously untrained and ignorant gun owners out there. Yes, you read that correctly: from watching pro-gun videos. You can find lots of references to kooky things people say at gun shops and dangerous things people do at such shops and gun ranges. I say again: what we have in the US overall is a consumerist culture. To be fair, there are organizations that do a proper job of creating a culture of respect and knowledge for such weapons, but it seems to me that we don't have enough of this. Another thing I've discovered is that lots of gun legislation is just as wacky and ill conceived as legislation covering reverse engineering, hacking, and the internet. (SOPA, CISPA, DMCA...) In both cases it's formulated by politicians who don't properly know the subject matter as a response to a demagogic hot-button issue, or at the behest of corporate interests. To me, "gun_owners = bad" is just as much of a problem as "democrats = socialists".
- gyardley 13y ago
  Uh-huh. Look, within living memory of people I've shared a siddur with at synagogue, a decidedly first-world population attempted to try and stuff my entire people up a crematorium stack. And people wonder why I'm a life member of the NRA.
  - reader5000 13y ago
    I also wonder, since if there is a "next Hitler" he's almost assuredly going to be produced by anti-government, anti-"banker" gun culture.
    - gyardley 13y ago
      I don't see the connection between being anti-banker and the NRA at all - being anti-banker is generally a left-liberal political position, a feeling more at home at Occupy Wall Street. I'm going to assume you didn't bring up "bankers" just because I'm Jewish. The rest of what you said was equally nonsensical - really, just a slur against gun owners. Do you really think the future leader of an authoritarian, genocidal state apparatus would be anti-government?
      - reader5000 13y ago
        Anti-unregulated banking is a left-liberal position. But lack of regulation isn't what I hear when I listen to gun culture complaining about "liberal elites" in Washington and "bankers" on Wall Street. Is that necessarily anti-semitism? No. But you brought up Hitler, not me. >Do you really think the future leader of an authoritarian, genocidal state apparatus would be anti-government? Most uninformed thing I've read today. You might want to start here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_Hall_Putsch http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_Hall_Putsch
        Turing_Machine 13y ago
        That would be the one carried out by the National Socialist Party, yes? Just because someone told you that the Nazis were "right wing" doesn't mean they have anything in common with the other groups someone told are "right wing". "Right wing" and "left wing" are utterly meaningless except as terms of abuse. Edit: What, in specific, does (say) the Libertarian Party have in common with the Nazi Party?
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]