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I may be in the minority here, but I actually think most changes to the Gmail interface have been improvements. My biggest gripe was when they did the overall

I may be in the minority here, but I actually think most changes to the Gmail interface have been improvements. My biggest gripe was when they did the overall visual refresh, which reduced the information density on my small laptop screen. Then they added a "Density" switcher, which made things alright again. I actually like it when interfaces change. Even when I was super busy I wouldn't mind learning and adapting to changes interfaces. Oh well, I guess I just like change for its own sake.

ebbv 13y ago
You are definitely in the minority liking change for its own sake. I enjoy change if it's at worst neutral in impacting functionality but when it makes the application/system/whatever harder to use then it's obviously bad. New Compose is terrible and they're saying they'll get rid of old compose soon. The new reply interface is terrible. The new interface doesn't play well with the GChat boxes either. It used to be that the reply box was small enough that it was trivial to have it on the page at the same time as your GChat, but now the chat boxes will overlay the replay area if you have more than 1. They do this because they want us to be chatting via Google+. But nobody uses Google+. And rather than convincing me to start using Google+ what they're doing is convincing me to ditch GChat and GMail.
taigeair 13y ago
I love trying new things and I love learning new software but I've learned the new gmail UI and I don't like clicking 2-3X more for things I do pretty regularly. Like getting someone's email address.
- Draiken 13y ago
  I agree that for you it's 3 more clicks, but for the millions of other regular users, it's less useless info on the way. People have to get that it's a product for many, not for all. You can agree with hiding emails or not, but a company as large as Google wouldn't hide it just for the sake of it. Obviously there was research and data that backed that change. Bottom line is, if it was your company, you'd hide stuff to improve the experience of 90% of your customers at the cost of a few without another thought.
  - neop 13y ago
    While that may be a good point, you also need to consider that Gmail is part of Google Apps for Business. I don't really mind the changes for my personal Gmail account since most of the emails that go through there are quite simple and these changes don't have any real impact on my workflow. But for my work account, it's a whole different story. Most of these changes make my experience quite annoying when dealing with business emails where I often need to copy email addresses, modify subjects, CC people, etc. Breaking Gmail for business users doesn't seem like a good idea since they are the ones who are actually paying for the service.
  - ijk 13y ago
    It's an online web app. You can give different people different interfaces for the same data. You can even let them choose which interface they prefer. Your data-collection might tell you that 90% of users would be better off one way, but that's an argument for changing the defaults, not for alienating a chunk of your userbase. And if every change like this is upsetting 10% of your users...
- emp_zealoth 13y ago
  Revolutionary idea! Why not use Thunderbird? Or any other mail client?
  - scholia 13y ago
    Nobody wants to use Thunderbird just because it's faster than using the web interface, more functional, adds useful features, and keeps a backup of your email on your hard drive. Unfortunately it involves running a program on a PC and the PC is dead. Nobody uses PCs any more. Didn't you get the memo? :-)
GhotiFish 13y ago
I'm with you. Asthetics actually have improved with many google services, quiet alot actually. You hear complaints about Youtube's design evolution. They've improved much more than they've missed.
- emp_zealoth 13y ago
  The latest YouTube itrration is just god awful for me. Title should be above the thing I'm watching, not below. Because of that, the video sits in the top corner of my screen. And. I. Hate. It. Maybe there is a way to fix that, but guess what. I can't be arsed to look for it. It's nice to have an overhaul of your UI every now and then, but screwing it upside down every other day just makes me stop using it. Facebook is so retarded now that every time I have to use it I want to scream in agony. Gnome is a nice example. They did a dramatic change, but it was long overdue. I hated it at the start, thankfully Unity was such a pos that I gave it a shot and came about. Now I'm having trouble with Windows, since it feels clunky and inefficient now. But gnome did the change once. With some websites it feels like they just like to horse around making me guess and study their new gimmicky fud.
  - GhotiFish 13y ago
    My opinions are opposite yours. (except facebook, which I do not use) Youtube has a functional layout for my purposes, particularly in find videos of my subscriptions, after a user style modification or two, youtube can really shine. but GNOME? Want dontzap off? "No one actually wants that!" Want compose keys? "No one actually wants that!" Want your computer to stay on when you close the lid? "No one actually wants that!" want to hide the top bar? "No one actually wants that!" want to move the top bar? "No one actually wants that!" There were some good choices made, yes, but GNOME also chose to removing functionality. Then it chose to provide no alternatives because it threatened their brand. GNOME 3's motto should of being "No one actually wants that!"
    - emp_zealoth 13y ago
      For the laptop with closed lid, I have no idea what is the problem. It works out of the box for me. I'm not exactly sure what does dontzap do, but apparently its X.org issue, not Gnome. I agree they made some controversial changes. I don't really like the bottom tray. I don't like the lack of any meaningful customisation. Some really stupid shit was that they hid Power Off option for some time. Then again, it is so good when it comes to my workflow I just roll with it. There are some prosthetics that helped me re-add some functionality - it was really annoying that background programs wouldn't show up in the top bar. And my point kinda was that they did complete overhaul of UI, but then sticked to it (more or less). Layout isn't changing dramatically every few months.
ChuckMcM 13y ago
That's the rub isn't it? You may be in the minority and represent 10,000,000 users. Now who reading this wouldn't love to have a product with 10M active users? If I had to coin it as a law I would say "The probability of an acceptable UX for a product is a function inverse square of the number of users of that product." Which is to say its impossible. Hence the need for the UX to be morphable.

ebbv 13y ago

You are definitely in the minority liking change for its own sake. I enjoy change if it's at worst neutral in impacting functionality but when it makes the application/system/whatever harder to use then it's obviously bad. New Compose is terrible and they're saying they'll get rid of old compose soon. The new reply interface is terrible. The new interface doesn't play well with the GChat boxes either. It used to be that the reply box was small enough that it was trivial to have it on the page at the same time as your GChat, but now the chat boxes will overlay the replay area if you have more than 1. They do this because they want us to be chatting via Google+. But nobody uses Google+. And rather than convincing me to start using Google+ what they're doing is convincing me to ditch GChat and GMail.

taigeair 13y ago

I love trying new things and I love learning new software but I've learned the new gmail UI and I don't like clicking 2-3X more for things I do pretty regularly. Like getting someone's email address.

Draiken 13y ago
I agree that for you it's 3 more clicks, but for the millions of other regular users, it's less useless info on the way. People have to get that it's a product for many, not for all. You can agree with hiding emails or not, but a company as large as Google wouldn't hide it just for the sake of it. Obviously there was research and data that backed that change. Bottom line is, if it was your company, you'd hide stuff to improve the experience of 90% of your customers at the cost of a few without another thought.
- neop 13y ago
  While that may be a good point, you also need to consider that Gmail is part of Google Apps for Business. I don't really mind the changes for my personal Gmail account since most of the emails that go through there are quite simple and these changes don't have any real impact on my workflow. But for my work account, it's a whole different story. Most of these changes make my experience quite annoying when dealing with business emails where I often need to copy email addresses, modify subjects, CC people, etc. Breaking Gmail for business users doesn't seem like a good idea since they are the ones who are actually paying for the service.
- ijk 13y ago
  It's an online web app. You can give different people different interfaces for the same data. You can even let them choose which interface they prefer. Your data-collection might tell you that 90% of users would be better off one way, but that's an argument for changing the defaults, not for alienating a chunk of your userbase. And if every change like this is upsetting 10% of your users...
emp_zealoth 13y ago
Revolutionary idea! Why not use Thunderbird? Or any other mail client?
- scholia 13y ago
  Nobody wants to use Thunderbird just because it's faster than using the web interface, more functional, adds useful features, and keeps a backup of your email on your hard drive. Unfortunately it involves running a program on a PC and the PC is dead. Nobody uses PCs any more. Didn't you get the memo? :-)

GhotiFish 13y ago

I'm with you. Asthetics actually have improved with many google services, quiet alot actually. You hear complaints about Youtube's design evolution. They've improved much more than they've missed.

emp_zealoth 13y ago
The latest YouTube itrration is just god awful for me. Title should be above the thing I'm watching, not below. Because of that, the video sits in the top corner of my screen. And. I. Hate. It. Maybe there is a way to fix that, but guess what. I can't be arsed to look for it. It's nice to have an overhaul of your UI every now and then, but screwing it upside down every other day just makes me stop using it. Facebook is so retarded now that every time I have to use it I want to scream in agony. Gnome is a nice example. They did a dramatic change, but it was long overdue. I hated it at the start, thankfully Unity was such a pos that I gave it a shot and came about. Now I'm having trouble with Windows, since it feels clunky and inefficient now. But gnome did the change once. With some websites it feels like they just like to horse around making me guess and study their new gimmicky fud.
- GhotiFish 13y ago
  My opinions are opposite yours. (except facebook, which I do not use) Youtube has a functional layout for my purposes, particularly in find videos of my subscriptions, after a user style modification or two, youtube can really shine. but GNOME? Want dontzap off? "No one actually wants that!" Want compose keys? "No one actually wants that!" Want your computer to stay on when you close the lid? "No one actually wants that!" want to hide the top bar? "No one actually wants that!" want to move the top bar? "No one actually wants that!" There were some good choices made, yes, but GNOME also chose to removing functionality. Then it chose to provide no alternatives because it threatened their brand. GNOME 3's motto should of being "No one actually wants that!"
  - emp_zealoth 13y ago
    For the laptop with closed lid, I have no idea what is the problem. It works out of the box for me. I'm not exactly sure what does dontzap do, but apparently its X.org issue, not Gnome. I agree they made some controversial changes. I don't really like the bottom tray. I don't like the lack of any meaningful customisation. Some really stupid shit was that they hid Power Off option for some time. Then again, it is so good when it comes to my workflow I just roll with it. There are some prosthetics that helped me re-add some functionality - it was really annoying that background programs wouldn't show up in the top bar. And my point kinda was that they did complete overhaul of UI, but then sticked to it (more or less). Layout isn't changing dramatically every few months.

ChuckMcM 13y ago

That's the rub isn't it? You may be in the minority and represent 10,000,000 users. Now who reading this wouldn't love to have a product with 10M active users? If I had to coin it as a law I would say "The probability of an acceptable UX for a product is a function inverse square of the number of users of that product." Which is to say its impossible. Hence the need for the UX to be morphable.