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Does anyone really think Photoshop is a good UX for mass consumption (which is obviously the target for Gmail)? I've been using it since version 2, and I think

Does anyone really think Photoshop is a good UX for mass consumption (which is obviously the target for Gmail)? I've been using it since version 2, and I think it's a great product, but for new users it's a miserably difficult product to learn, especially for any kind of casual use. There's a reason why users love apps like Draw Something or (more relevantly) Instagram or Paper. They're able to easily achieve the results they want without investing a huge amount of time in learning the software. Why is that so hard to understand? Not everyone wants to invest 40+ hours in learning Photoshop.

cmircea 13y ago
Nobody thinks Photoshop has a good UX, but that's not the point; the point is it's been consistent, with only small, helpful changes. If Adobe redesigned the Photoshop interface they'd instantly love half their market share, as people using software professionally don't like or have the time to learn something new just because it's better in some odd way. Microsoft did that with Office, the whole Ribbon fiasco, but to their defense: - Office 2003's UI was extremely complicated; GMail's new extra steps are nothing in comparison. - The Ribbon UI was well designed from the start. - All (or most) keyboard shortcuts stayed the same. - Microsoft actually did extensively test the new design and, being Microsoft, it will be supported for a long time. Adobe probably wouldn't be able to pull that off, and it looks like even Google can't anymore.
- tomkarlo 13y ago
  Yes, but Photoshop has a totally different target market from Gmail, which is why the article's comparison is nonsensical if not entirely wrong. Gmail is designed for everyone and has to support the full spectrum of users, in particular the new ones (because they're the ones picking new email accounts - consider that they're partially trying to target people who still don't have email). Photoshop is designed for a very select set of power users. Saying Gmail's interface is becoming less like Photoshop and that's bad makes no sense at all. You probably wouldn't recommend Photoshop to your Grandma - you'd tell her to use Picasa or iPhoto, both of which I suspect have far more users.
  - ebbv 13y ago
    If your point is that his analogy wasn't great, I think we'll all concede that point.
    - tomkarlo 13y ago
      Well, my point was that the analogy shows the problem with the rest of the post - he's applying a faulty standard to judging if the changes are good ones or not. If it's just griping that he doesn't like the changes, fine, but if his point is that these are bad changes that don't make sense for the product, then he needs to pick a better analogy. Everyone wants simpler, more intuitive products, unless it disrupts their particular workflow. http://xkcd.com/1172/ http://xkcd.com/1172/
      - ebbv 13y ago
        I think despite the weak analogy, his point is obviously valid and solid. Gmail has gotten shittier for everyone.
        tomkarlo 13y ago
        That's a pretty broad statement. It seems like what he's written is that it's gotten worse for someone with his use cases, which I'm not arguing (and I fall in that camp.) But we're also not representative of the average email user, which we sometimes have a tendency to forget when judging product changes.
        taigeair 13y ago
        @tomkarlo Photoshop is extremely customisable and full-featured which is what I was getting at. Draw Something is fun and light which works well as a mobile app. I don't know about the average email user but after 10,000+ hours of using email, I feel like I'm pretty proficient at email :)
        tomkarlo 13y ago
- enneff 13y ago
  But the Photoshop interface did change dramatically with CS, Au least more substantially than gmail ever has.
- jimmaswell 13y ago
  What exactly about Office 2003's interface was "extremely complicated"? It's been nothing but intuitive and helpful to me. The new versions of Office aren't hard to figure out either, though.
  - ams6110 13y ago
    I haven't used Office in any significant way since the Ribbon. It was basically the final nail in the coffin for me. Even now, when I have to use a word processor or spreadsheet, I can easily find my way around LibreOffice menus, while Office's Ribbon is confounding every time.
nwh 13y ago
I spend a vast amount of time every day in Photoshop and Illustrator. I got bored with uploading screenshots some time ago, but here's a small collection of my day-to-day interactions with the software. http://bad-adobe.tumblr.com/ http://bad-adobe.tumblr.com/
- darxius 13y ago
  This is actually pretty entertaining. I always thought of the Photoshop interface to "alright", but I may reconsider my position.
mnicole 13y ago
> for new users it's a miserably difficult product to learn, especially for any kind of casual use. .. means the UX is bad. Just because it's an advanced tool doesn't mean it needs to be unreasonably difficult to wrap your head around. Pixelmator isn't as powerful, but the UX for most of what it does far exceeds Photoshop's similar features.
- jpatokal 13y ago
  Discoverability != usability. Products designed for casual, first-time users must be discoverable (= it's easy to figure out how to do things), while tools for professionals repeating a workflow over and over must be usable (= fast to do what you want). Photoshop is usable but not discoverable, Gmail has to be both and it's a fine line to walk.
WildUtah 13y ago
Does anyone really think Photoshop is a good UX for mass consumption Obviously not. I just wish Gmail would work more like The GIMP.
- GhotiFish 13y ago
  I have gimp love, I really do. but I do not agree with your statement.
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curiousdannii 13y ago
I think we all wish Gmail was just more like Gmail. The arguably redesigned email client UX. Compare it to itself!
amerika 13y ago
I think older versions were more consistent. The newer ones show tacked-on ideas. I'm sticking with V6, despite its age and incompleteness.

cmircea 13y ago

Nobody thinks Photoshop has a good UX, but that's not the point; the point is it's been consistent, with only small, helpful changes. If Adobe redesigned the Photoshop interface they'd instantly love half their market share, as people using software professionally don't like or have the time to learn something new just because it's better in some odd way. Microsoft did that with Office, the whole Ribbon fiasco, but to their defense: - Office 2003's UI was extremely complicated; GMail's new extra steps are nothing in comparison. - The Ribbon UI was well designed from the start. - All (or most) keyboard shortcuts stayed the same. - Microsoft actually did extensively test the new design and, being Microsoft, it will be supported for a long time. Adobe probably wouldn't be able to pull that off, and it looks like even Google can't anymore.

tomkarlo 13y ago
Yes, but Photoshop has a totally different target market from Gmail, which is why the article's comparison is nonsensical if not entirely wrong. Gmail is designed for everyone and has to support the full spectrum of users, in particular the new ones (because they're the ones picking new email accounts - consider that they're partially trying to target people who still don't have email). Photoshop is designed for a very select set of power users. Saying Gmail's interface is becoming less like Photoshop and that's bad makes no sense at all. You probably wouldn't recommend Photoshop to your Grandma - you'd tell her to use Picasa or iPhoto, both of which I suspect have far more users.
- ebbv 13y ago
  If your point is that his analogy wasn't great, I think we'll all concede that point.
  - tomkarlo 13y ago
    Well, my point was that the analogy shows the problem with the rest of the post - he's applying a faulty standard to judging if the changes are good ones or not. If it's just griping that he doesn't like the changes, fine, but if his point is that these are bad changes that don't make sense for the product, then he needs to pick a better analogy. Everyone wants simpler, more intuitive products, unless it disrupts their particular workflow. http://xkcd.com/1172/ http://xkcd.com/1172/
    - ebbv 13y ago
      I think despite the weak analogy, his point is obviously valid and solid. Gmail has gotten shittier for everyone.
      - tomkarlo 13y ago
        That's a pretty broad statement. It seems like what he's written is that it's gotten worse for someone with his use cases, which I'm not arguing (and I fall in that camp.) But we're also not representative of the average email user, which we sometimes have a tendency to forget when judging product changes.
        taigeair 13y ago
        @tomkarlo Photoshop is extremely customisable and full-featured which is what I was getting at. Draw Something is fun and light which works well as a mobile app. I don't know about the average email user but after 10,000+ hours of using email, I feel like I'm pretty proficient at email :)
        tomkarlo 13y ago
enneff 13y ago
But the Photoshop interface did change dramatically with CS, Au least more substantially than gmail ever has.
jimmaswell 13y ago
What exactly about Office 2003's interface was "extremely complicated"? It's been nothing but intuitive and helpful to me. The new versions of Office aren't hard to figure out either, though.
- ams6110 13y ago
  I haven't used Office in any significant way since the Ribbon. It was basically the final nail in the coffin for me. Even now, when I have to use a word processor or spreadsheet, I can easily find my way around LibreOffice menus, while Office's Ribbon is confounding every time.

nwh 13y ago

I spend a vast amount of time every day in Photoshop and Illustrator. I got bored with uploading screenshots some time ago, but here's a small collection of my day-to-day interactions with the software. http://bad-adobe.tumblr.com/ http://bad-adobe.tumblr.com/

darxius 13y ago
This is actually pretty entertaining. I always thought of the Photoshop interface to "alright", but I may reconsider my position.

mnicole 13y ago

> for new users it's a miserably difficult product to learn, especially for any kind of casual use. .. means the UX is bad. Just because it's an advanced tool doesn't mean it needs to be unreasonably difficult to wrap your head around. Pixelmator isn't as powerful, but the UX for most of what it does far exceeds Photoshop's similar features.

jpatokal 13y ago
Discoverability != usability. Products designed for casual, first-time users must be discoverable (= it's easy to figure out how to do things), while tools for professionals repeating a workflow over and over must be usable (= fast to do what you want). Photoshop is usable but not discoverable, Gmail has to be both and it's a fine line to walk.

WildUtah 13y ago

Does anyone really think Photoshop is a good UX for mass consumption Obviously not. I just wish Gmail would work more like The GIMP.

GhotiFish 13y ago
I have gimp love, I really do. but I do not agree with your statement.

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curiousdannii 13y ago

I think we all wish Gmail was just more like Gmail. The arguably redesigned email client UX. Compare it to itself!

amerika 13y ago

I think older versions were more consistent. The newer ones show tacked-on ideas. I'm sticking with V6, despite its age and incompleteness.