7 ms·

> try to explain to tax authorities why you're not paying payroll taxes for servers if you're a restaurant. Instead many companies will have to increase prices.

> try to explain to tax authorities why you're not paying payroll taxes for servers if you're a restaurant. Instead many companies will have to increase prices. What would most likely happen is that one set of restaurants would increase prices, whilst another would try to avoid doing so, by trying to find ways to reduce service costs (e.g. customers place their order at a machine, rather than with a human). Some of each would be successful, some would not. But over time the trend is towards more and more low paid jobs being pushed back to the customer themselves. In many countries minimum wage has been a key factor in killing off many jobs, (e.g. as pumping gas.) Also, if minimum wage is raised to above your current wage, you're now competing for it with people who were in that higher wage bracket before. If a business now has to pay someone, say, $10 an hour instead of $7, they will be able to get people with more experience / skill for that price, making it harder for people to get entry-level jobs in the first place.

vidarh 13y ago
You can see first hand what happens by looking at large parts of Europe. And the development to push low paid jobs back to the customer themselves does indeed happen, but it happens regardless. Countries like Norway does not have massive unemployment by international standard, despite one of the flattest salary curves in the world. > If a business now has to pay someone, say, $10 an hour instead of $7, they will be able to get people with more experience / skill for that price, making it harder for people to get entry-level jobs in the first place. This assumes the more qualified people want those jobs, even at $10 instead of $7. If I could get a job as a cleaner for what I make as a software developer, I'd still pick the (much less physically demanding, and less soul destroying) job as a software developer. If salary was even the main determinant for why people pick the jobs they do, then we'd practically have no nurses or teachers, for example - both jobs that require disproportionally long education for the often very low salaries they command. Or even law. In the UK, the average salary for solicitors (who require 3 or 4 years for a degree plus the Legal Practice Course of one year plus two years of practice before you become qualified) is lower than the national average salary. You can make far more in many professions that don't require even a degree. In fact, there are people in retail and fast food jobs that make more than many UK solicitors, yet work normal hours where many solicitors work hours that are illegal in most European countries. But most of the positions that are in the territory that would be affected by minimum wage restrictions tends to be positions primarily attracting the totally unqualified that are generally positions that are extremely unattractive for qualified workers and remain so for most even if the salary was better. How many people do you come across that actively want to make a career for themselves working themselves up the ladder in McDonalds? Yet making manager at a McDonalds in the UK can net you 45k GBP/year or more - far above the average UK salary. Economically, a large proportion of UK solicitors, teachers, nurses and many others would be better off working at McDonalds. Yet we don't see a massive flight of highly qualified people to McDonalds or similar.
- LekkoscPiwa 13y ago
  >You can see first hand what happens by looking at large >parts of Europe. Right, like 15-20% unemployment rates. >Countries like Norway does not have massive unemployment by >international standard, despite one of the flattest salary >curves in the world. Because they make gigantic profits on gas and oil. Saying socialism is good because the economy flourishes in Norway is akin to saying monarchy is good because the economy flourishes in Saudi Arabia. >If I could get a job as a cleaner for what I make as a >software developer, I'd still pick the (much less physically >demanding, and less soul destroying) job as a software >developer. And if you have no experience what so ever and want to get this first job cleaning for $7/hr you won't stand a chance with minimal pay at $10/hr. Because the employer will get someone experienced instead of you in that price range. So the minimal wage will effectively put you out of the job market. That's why there are so many more unemployed among unskilled young workers than in general population across all age groups. Without the minimal wage law you could get a first job for let's say just $3/hr, then get experience and then get more money as an experienced worker in another job. With minimal wage enforced this is not happening, you stay out of the job market never being able to get this first job. Before minimal wage law was imposed the unemployment rate among young was the lowest among all group ages. Currently is the highest among all groups ages. This is precisely because of the minimal wage law. Minimal wage was on a political agenda of Unions that lobbied successfuly for it, to actually protect their union members from price competition with young unskilled workers. Singapore has literally no unemployment among young and has had none for decades. Also has no minimal wage and GDP per capita of over $60K compared to $50k in the US. And then the whole discussion is really utter nonsense because as long as you can get free labor that's called "internships". So instead of paying minimal wage companies end up paying nothing to guys who could actually make at least these $3/hr. Wouldn't that be better? You see too much regulation completely screwed-up the job market for young unskilled workers. You can get them for minimal wage or for free, but if you want to get them for the market rate it's illegal. That's just plain stupid.
  - anoncow 13y ago
    Without minimum wage, companies would fix a cleaner's salary at 3 usd per hour. No matter what your experience. Unregulated, most ism's are bad.

vidarh 13y ago

You can see first hand what happens by looking at large parts of Europe. And the development to push low paid jobs back to the customer themselves does indeed happen, but it happens regardless. Countries like Norway does not have massive unemployment by international standard, despite one of the flattest salary curves in the world. > If a business now has to pay someone, say, $10 an hour instead of $7, they will be able to get people with more experience / skill for that price, making it harder for people to get entry-level jobs in the first place. This assumes the more qualified people want those jobs, even at $10 instead of $7. If I could get a job as a cleaner for what I make as a software developer, I'd still pick the (much less physically demanding, and less soul destroying) job as a software developer. If salary was even the main determinant for why people pick the jobs they do, then we'd practically have no nurses or teachers, for example - both jobs that require disproportionally long education for the often very low salaries they command. Or even law. In the UK, the average salary for solicitors (who require 3 or 4 years for a degree plus the Legal Practice Course of one year plus two years of practice before you become qualified) is lower than the national average salary. You can make far more in many professions that don't require even a degree. In fact, there are people in retail and fast food jobs that make more than many UK solicitors, yet work normal hours where many solicitors work hours that are illegal in most European countries. But most of the positions that are in the territory that would be affected by minimum wage restrictions tends to be positions primarily attracting the totally unqualified that are generally positions that are extremely unattractive for qualified workers and remain so for most even if the salary was better. How many people do you come across that actively want to make a career for themselves working themselves up the ladder in McDonalds? Yet making manager at a McDonalds in the UK can net you 45k GBP/year or more - far above the average UK salary. Economically, a large proportion of UK solicitors, teachers, nurses and many others would be better off working at McDonalds. Yet we don't see a massive flight of highly qualified people to McDonalds or similar.

LekkoscPiwa 13y ago
>You can see first hand what happens by looking at large >parts of Europe. Right, like 15-20% unemployment rates. >Countries like Norway does not have massive unemployment by >international standard, despite one of the flattest salary >curves in the world. Because they make gigantic profits on gas and oil. Saying socialism is good because the economy flourishes in Norway is akin to saying monarchy is good because the economy flourishes in Saudi Arabia. >If I could get a job as a cleaner for what I make as a >software developer, I'd still pick the (much less physically >demanding, and less soul destroying) job as a software >developer. And if you have no experience what so ever and want to get this first job cleaning for $7/hr you won't stand a chance with minimal pay at $10/hr. Because the employer will get someone experienced instead of you in that price range. So the minimal wage will effectively put you out of the job market. That's why there are so many more unemployed among unskilled young workers than in general population across all age groups. Without the minimal wage law you could get a first job for let's say just $3/hr, then get experience and then get more money as an experienced worker in another job. With minimal wage enforced this is not happening, you stay out of the job market never being able to get this first job. Before minimal wage law was imposed the unemployment rate among young was the lowest among all group ages. Currently is the highest among all groups ages. This is precisely because of the minimal wage law. Minimal wage was on a political agenda of Unions that lobbied successfuly for it, to actually protect their union members from price competition with young unskilled workers. Singapore has literally no unemployment among young and has had none for decades. Also has no minimal wage and GDP per capita of over $60K compared to $50k in the US. And then the whole discussion is really utter nonsense because as long as you can get free labor that's called "internships". So instead of paying minimal wage companies end up paying nothing to guys who could actually make at least these $3/hr. Wouldn't that be better? You see too much regulation completely screwed-up the job market for young unskilled workers. You can get them for minimal wage or for free, but if you want to get them for the market rate it's illegal. That's just plain stupid.
- anoncow 13y ago
  Without minimum wage, companies would fix a cleaner's salary at 3 usd per hour. No matter what your experience. Unregulated, most ism's are bad.