4 ms·

Political pressure from ignorant Republican congressmen not only resulted in Jiang being fired over this non-incident, but something even more serious for scien

by mjn 14y ago

Political pressure from ignorant Republican congressmen not only resulted in Jiang being fired over this non-incident, but something even more serious for science in general: the entire NASA technical-report archive [1], with documents dating back decades, has been forced offline indefinitely [2]. Frank Wolf and his ilk are worried [3] that the Red Chinese might be reading some 1970s document in a way that compromises American national security. Never mind that the Chinese likely have copied a mirror of any documents they find interesting already. So now it's only American researchers who can't access it: there are no complete mirrors of which I'm aware, because U.S. libraries and archives naively assumed that NASA was a reliable long-term host for the documents, meaning there were no serious mirroring efforts. Maybe we can ask China to take pity on us and make a mirror available, since ntrs.nasa.gov being down breaks thousands of references in papers and elsewhere. [1] http://ntrs.nasa.gov/ http://ntrs.nasa.gov/ [2] http://blogs.fas.org/secrecy/2013/03/ntrs_dark/ http://blogs.fas.org/secrecy/2013/03/ntrs_dark/ [3] http://spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=40365 http://spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=40365

kanzure 14y ago
> meaning there were no serious mirroring efforts Unfortunately, this is also the case for the majority of commercially-published science. And no, JSTOR is not a good response because JSTOR doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of science. Science is one of the most important efforts in human history, and we don't have backups, or even mirrors. Great. Edit: does anyone know some orgs with deep pockets that would be willing to accept and host 30-50 terabytes of papers? I can't seem to find anyone that doesn't wuss out. I know it's risky, but it's also critically important.
- wisty 14y ago
  > Does anyone know some orgs with deep pockets that would be willing to accept and host 30-50 terabytes of papers? The Pirate Bay?
  - kanzure 14y ago
    > The Pirate Bay? Sorry, but TPB doesn't actually host any content.
    - maaku 14y ago
      Yes, but if you threw a torrent up with every published paper since Galileo, there'd be be plenty of people willing to seed.
      - Oxxide 14y ago
        that means someone has to download it, though.
      - rosstafarian 14y ago
        I believe some one already tried something similar, it unfortunately didn't end well[0]. If some one does throw up such a torrent though I'd be glad to help seed. [0]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz
        jlgreco 14y ago
        Had Aaron successfully seeded it a few times (if indeed that was even his intention in the first place), not really much would have changed for him. However I am certain that we would have the entirety of what he seeded.
        kanzure 14y ago
        > However I am certain that we would have the entirety of what he seeded. You guys are all crazy.. torrents consisting of this type of content already exist, and they have only one seeder. For example, the excellent Library Genesis collection. Why should I believe you when you tell me countless people will come to the rescue this time? Your average seeder doesn't have piles of terabytes, and evidently doesn't care to seed one or two parts out of thousands.
- pm90 14y ago
  does anyone know some orgs with deep pockets that would be willing to accept and host 30-50 terabytes of papers? I can't seem to find anyone that doesn't wuss out. I know it's risky, but it's also critically important. Google?
  - hkmurakami 14y ago
    Archive.org? (though this doesn't 100% match their mission)
- jacquesm 14y ago
  Hey Kanzure, mail me please. Jacques
noonespecial 14y ago
It'll be extra funny when we lose the docs because budget cuts cancel the proper storage of backups and then we have to go steal them back from the Chinese.
- mjn 14y ago
  Reminds me tangentially of this story about a company misplacing petrochemical-plant documentation and having to get copies from ex-employees who weren't supposed to actually have copies: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3390719 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3390719

by mjn 14y ago

kanzure 14y ago

> meaning there were no serious mirroring efforts Unfortunately, this is also the case for the majority of commercially-published science. And no, JSTOR is not a good response because JSTOR doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of science. Science is one of the most important efforts in human history, and we don't have backups, or even mirrors. Great. Edit: does anyone know some orgs with deep pockets that would be willing to accept and host 30-50 terabytes of papers? I can't seem to find anyone that doesn't wuss out. I know it's risky, but it's also critically important.

wisty 14y ago
> Does anyone know some orgs with deep pockets that would be willing to accept and host 30-50 terabytes of papers? The Pirate Bay?
- kanzure 14y ago
  > The Pirate Bay? Sorry, but TPB doesn't actually host any content.
  - maaku 14y ago
    Yes, but if you threw a torrent up with every published paper since Galileo, there'd be be plenty of people willing to seed.
    - Oxxide 14y ago
      that means someone has to download it, though.
    - rosstafarian 14y ago
      I believe some one already tried something similar, it unfortunately didn't end well[0]. If some one does throw up such a torrent though I'd be glad to help seed. [0]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz
      - jlgreco 14y ago
        Had Aaron successfully seeded it a few times (if indeed that was even his intention in the first place), not really much would have changed for him. However I am certain that we would have the entirety of what he seeded.
        kanzure 14y ago
        > However I am certain that we would have the entirety of what he seeded. You guys are all crazy.. torrents consisting of this type of content already exist, and they have only one seeder. For example, the excellent Library Genesis collection. Why should I believe you when you tell me countless people will come to the rescue this time? Your average seeder doesn't have piles of terabytes, and evidently doesn't care to seed one or two parts out of thousands.
pm90 14y ago
does anyone know some orgs with deep pockets that would be willing to accept and host 30-50 terabytes of papers? I can't seem to find anyone that doesn't wuss out. I know it's risky, but it's also critically important. Google?
- hkmurakami 14y ago
  Archive.org? (though this doesn't 100% match their mission)
jacquesm 14y ago
Hey Kanzure, mail me please. Jacques

noonespecial 14y ago

It'll be extra funny when we lose the docs because budget cuts cancel the proper storage of backups and then we have to go steal them back from the Chinese.

mjn 14y ago
Reminds me tangentially of this story about a company misplacing petrochemical-plant documentation and having to get copies from ex-employees who weren't supposed to actually have copies: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3390719 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3390719