5 ms·

Steganography + Porn, that's a really neat idea.. You wouldn't easily get officials to analyze those files together with a forensics team. That scenario is awkw

by X4 14y ago

Steganography + Porn, that's a really neat idea.. You wouldn't easily get officials to analyze those files together with a forensics team. That scenario is awkward. An error the official did was making his company a public target, by revealing that they might have sensitive data, without being prepared to an attack. Not so clever move, sorry.

jjoonathan 14y ago
Surely the NSA has hashes of nearly everything on the internet (bloom filters, perhaps?). Finding images that didn't match would be a simple and automated task. There isn't even a need for the person doing the scan to know that it's porn -- from the point of view of the hash database, porn, system files, and ripped DVDs all fall into the category of "seen before, not interesting." After the forensics team found files that didn't match the DB, they would have a good reason to investigate further and officials / the media wouldn't let nekked bodies stop them from commenting. Porn would make a poor choice of background media because reverse image search is ubiquitous. Finding the originals would be easy, and showing that the differences between the stego'd images and the originals didn't happen via compression would probably not be too hard either. If the encryption is good they probably wouldn't get any further than that. Still, any significant quantity of hidden files would generate a large body of evidence that would be very difficult to explain away. Why go to the trouble of hiding info on the hard drive of a guy who was already under suspicion when a prerecorded skype call or controlled packet latency system would make for a stego medium that was much harder to detect and easier to plausibly deny?
- X4 14y ago
  You're correct and personally I would never underestimate the NSA/FBI or any other organization. Remember Aaron Schwartz. But there is too much evidence that they might be much less professional and less equipped with such high-quality hash-databases. I don't believe that they could allocate enough professional resources (in such a "low priority" target) to actually give clearance of the case and green lights to the officers with certainty. If the porn movies are avis and 700mb, but with SD-quality, then you couldn't notice the difference. Take 20 porn files porn-a.avi (500MB original or 600MB with hidden data) There are so many rips or rips of rips that you cannot have a complete porn-database. And phew 2GB of compressed and hidden Data. Even if he didn't have used Steganography, he could easily use imageshack.us, imgur.com and other file-hosting sites, heck even upload to porn-sites to hide the data. Additionally you could get bad hashes into your database, when they upload the porn movies themself.
  - yk 14y ago
    I am pretty sure the NSA has a high quality hash database for porn and movie files. Probably the codename is the piratebay.
  - jjoonathan 14y ago
    How do you figure this is a low priority target? This certainly falls within their mandate and the guy might have been trying to steal legitimately sensitive information! > Take 20 porn files porn-a.avi (500MB original or 600MB with hidden data) There are so many rips or rips of rips that you cannot have a complete porn-database. And phew 2GB of compressed and hidden Data. The smallest SSD I own could handily fit that data whole and the bloom filter would fit in an arduino a thousand times over. The NSA's shiny new Utah datacenter had a $2B budget for construction alone, do you really think "rips of rips" are going to be a problem? These guys scrape web traffic by putting a T on major junctions of the internet and duplicating everything that comes down the pipes. You could set all of 4chan to making rips with permuted settings and not begin to stress infrastructure of that capacity. I don't want to be rude, but you seem to be in denial.
- slig 14y ago
  > controlled packet latency system That sounds very cool. Do you have any interesting links about it?
  - jjoonathan 14y ago
    Sure: http://static.usenix.org/events/sec06/tech/shah/shah_html/jbug-Usenix06.html http://static.usenix.org/events/sec06/tech/shah/shah_html/jb... The covert channel discussed in the paper doesn't control network traffic directly but if you were maximizing bandwidth and didn't have to hide from an intrusion detection system you would almost certainly want to do so.
shaggyfrog 14y ago
> You wouldn't easily get officials to analyze those files together with a forensics team. That scenario is awkward. Why, naked bodies make the FBI blush?
- X4 14y ago
  eww, you got me in a moment where I was almost thinking of them in a too romantic way. I've fallen down to reality and can imagine now how their forensic team could possibly enjoy those movies on a (4k/HD Laser) Projector..
nwh 14y ago
>That scenario is awkward. You are clearly mistaken. I recently read a paper about people who's jobs involve sitting down and looking at child abuse photos, and then trekking off to the councillor. A few blurry porn videos are nothing compared with that.
- X4 14y ago
  whoa... ok, I didn't know that I'm that naive. Thanks for opening my eyes. Yes now I remember that there are people, behind the cameras that monitor how people are getting tortured.. someone is always doing the dirty job, even when nobody wants to know it.
  - maaku 14y ago
    There are people out there in law enforcement who's job it is to collect child pornography, categorizing and filing it in the hope of identifying the victim and the perpetrator. When there is a breakthrough and the child gets saved, these people are the heroes that make it happen. However I imagine that for every perp caught there are a dozen more that escape justice... personally I can't imagine doing such a job - it'd tear me up inside to know these people are out there. But someone's got to do it.
- astrodust 14y ago
  It still takes an exceptionally rugged individual to be able to sift through that much of that sort of thing and not want a different line of work. Though, perhaps like some people that work to clean up extremely gory crime or accident scenes and aren't bothered by it at all, there may be a few that can maintain some kind of separation.
est 14y ago
He can prove his innocence by re-downloading the exact same porn again.
- saalweachter 14y ago
  People shouldn't have to prove their innocence.
- jlgreco 14y ago
  1) saalweachter is dead on. 2) Even an innocent man would likely have a very difficult time actually doing that. In many cases it could be straight up impossible; websites go out of business, torrents go unseeded, image boards 404 in a matter of hours, reddit has a search system that makes me look back on old card catalogs fondly...
  - est 14y ago
    Yes I agree with saalweachter, but just if in case of steganography, A quick Google for file sha1 or md5 usually reveals ed2k or magnet links.
Apocryphon 14y ago
After porn was found in the Abbottabad compound and everyone had a good laugh at the hypocrisy of Osama Bin Laden, wasn't there talk that the porn there might have hidden messages enclosed? Could be the same case here, it's just a decoy.

by X4 14y ago

jjoonathan 14y ago

Surely the NSA has hashes of nearly everything on the internet (bloom filters, perhaps?). Finding images that didn't match would be a simple and automated task. There isn't even a need for the person doing the scan to know that it's porn -- from the point of view of the hash database, porn, system files, and ripped DVDs all fall into the category of "seen before, not interesting." After the forensics team found files that didn't match the DB, they would have a good reason to investigate further and officials / the media wouldn't let nekked bodies stop them from commenting. Porn would make a poor choice of background media because reverse image search is ubiquitous. Finding the originals would be easy, and showing that the differences between the stego'd images and the originals didn't happen via compression would probably not be too hard either. If the encryption is good they probably wouldn't get any further than that. Still, any significant quantity of hidden files would generate a large body of evidence that would be very difficult to explain away. Why go to the trouble of hiding info on the hard drive of a guy who was already under suspicion when a prerecorded skype call or controlled packet latency system would make for a stego medium that was much harder to detect and easier to plausibly deny?

X4 14y ago
You're correct and personally I would never underestimate the NSA/FBI or any other organization. Remember Aaron Schwartz. But there is too much evidence that they might be much less professional and less equipped with such high-quality hash-databases. I don't believe that they could allocate enough professional resources (in such a "low priority" target) to actually give clearance of the case and green lights to the officers with certainty. If the porn movies are avis and 700mb, but with SD-quality, then you couldn't notice the difference. Take 20 porn files porn-a.avi (500MB original or 600MB with hidden data) There are so many rips or rips of rips that you cannot have a complete porn-database. And phew 2GB of compressed and hidden Data. Even if he didn't have used Steganography, he could easily use imageshack.us, imgur.com and other file-hosting sites, heck even upload to porn-sites to hide the data. Additionally you could get bad hashes into your database, when they upload the porn movies themself.
- yk 14y ago
  I am pretty sure the NSA has a high quality hash database for porn and movie files. Probably the codename is the piratebay.
- jjoonathan 14y ago
  How do you figure this is a low priority target? This certainly falls within their mandate and the guy might have been trying to steal legitimately sensitive information! > Take 20 porn files porn-a.avi (500MB original or 600MB with hidden data) There are so many rips or rips of rips that you cannot have a complete porn-database. And phew 2GB of compressed and hidden Data. The smallest SSD I own could handily fit that data whole and the bloom filter would fit in an arduino a thousand times over. The NSA's shiny new Utah datacenter had a $2B budget for construction alone, do you really think "rips of rips" are going to be a problem? These guys scrape web traffic by putting a T on major junctions of the internet and duplicating everything that comes down the pipes. You could set all of 4chan to making rips with permuted settings and not begin to stress infrastructure of that capacity. I don't want to be rude, but you seem to be in denial.
slig 14y ago
> controlled packet latency system That sounds very cool. Do you have any interesting links about it?
- jjoonathan 14y ago
  Sure: http://static.usenix.org/events/sec06/tech/shah/shah_html/jbug-Usenix06.html http://static.usenix.org/events/sec06/tech/shah/shah_html/jb... The covert channel discussed in the paper doesn't control network traffic directly but if you were maximizing bandwidth and didn't have to hide from an intrusion detection system you would almost certainly want to do so.

shaggyfrog 14y ago

> You wouldn't easily get officials to analyze those files together with a forensics team. That scenario is awkward. Why, naked bodies make the FBI blush?

X4 14y ago
eww, you got me in a moment where I was almost thinking of them in a too romantic way. I've fallen down to reality and can imagine now how their forensic team could possibly enjoy those movies on a (4k/HD Laser) Projector..

nwh 14y ago

>That scenario is awkward. You are clearly mistaken. I recently read a paper about people who's jobs involve sitting down and looking at child abuse photos, and then trekking off to the councillor. A few blurry porn videos are nothing compared with that.

X4 14y ago
whoa... ok, I didn't know that I'm that naive. Thanks for opening my eyes. Yes now I remember that there are people, behind the cameras that monitor how people are getting tortured.. someone is always doing the dirty job, even when nobody wants to know it.
- maaku 14y ago
  There are people out there in law enforcement who's job it is to collect child pornography, categorizing and filing it in the hope of identifying the victim and the perpetrator. When there is a breakthrough and the child gets saved, these people are the heroes that make it happen. However I imagine that for every perp caught there are a dozen more that escape justice... personally I can't imagine doing such a job - it'd tear me up inside to know these people are out there. But someone's got to do it.
astrodust 14y ago
It still takes an exceptionally rugged individual to be able to sift through that much of that sort of thing and not want a different line of work. Though, perhaps like some people that work to clean up extremely gory crime or accident scenes and aren't bothered by it at all, there may be a few that can maintain some kind of separation.

est 14y ago

He can prove his innocence by re-downloading the exact same porn again.

saalweachter 14y ago
People shouldn't have to prove their innocence.
jlgreco 14y ago
1) saalweachter is dead on. 2) Even an innocent man would likely have a very difficult time actually doing that. In many cases it could be straight up impossible; websites go out of business, torrents go unseeded, image boards 404 in a matter of hours, reddit has a search system that makes me look back on old card catalogs fondly...
- est 14y ago
  Yes I agree with saalweachter, but just if in case of steganography, A quick Google for file sha1 or md5 usually reveals ed2k or magnet links.

Apocryphon 14y ago

After porn was found in the Abbottabad compound and everyone had a good laugh at the hypocrisy of Osama Bin Laden, wasn't there talk that the porn there might have hidden messages enclosed? Could be the same case here, it's just a decoy.