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Does anyone have any links to better articles on this situation? I feel like we've only heard one side of this from the media. Now, the media could just be po

by Zimahl 13y ago

Does anyone have any links to better articles on this situation? I feel like we've only heard one side of this from the media. Now, the media could just be portraying the truth or they could be distorting the facts. Here are the questions I've yet heard answered: The actions were performed before school started (apparently). I call them 'actions' for a specific reason. Were these actions sponsored by a teacher? Were these actions an actual experiment? Were these actions performed within a science lab or somewhere else on school grounds? Were these actions associated with any curriculum the student was studying at the time? Right now I feel that this could have very well be the scientific community rallying around someone who could've been doing something very dangerous that wasn't sanctioned by the school. I would love some answers so I could know whether the charge is fair or not.

pnathan 13y ago
From what I can tell, much of chemistry is highly dangerous. The only real question, afaict, is whether the person knows how to correctly handle the danger. I absolutely am OK with students doing things on school grounds not sponsored by a teacher, not an actual experiment, and generally faffing about in the name of curiosity and learning. Schools shouldn't be running on a whitelist principle. IMO, the only reason this student should be given a felony charge is if she was planning to perform a dangerous detonation with malicious intent to harm. Even if she was being stupid and ignorant and planned to scare her friends, no harm was caused. Harmless foolishness should not be a felony... harmless learning even less so!
- Zimahl 13y ago
  I absolutely am OK with students doing things on school grounds not sponsored by a teacher, not an actual experiment, and generally faffing about in the name of curiosity and learning. Really? I mean, it would've been OK if she did this in the middle of a cafeteria during lunch? And, yes, much of chemistry is highly dangerous and that's the reason it is done in a lab with fume hoods and safety equipment. MO, the only reason this student should be given a felony charge is if she was planning to perform a dangerous detonation with malicious intent to harm. The reason why I asked for more information is because we don't really know whether or not this wasn't her intent. Was she being bullied and was going to do this to someone else? I have a hard time associating this with 'science' because the narrative seems so one-sided.
  - jlgreco 13y ago
    "Was she being bullied and was going to do this to someone else?" Do what to someone else, hurt their ears? Have you ever actually seen a works bomb go off?
    - Zimahl 13y ago
      I've seen one on Youtube and they are all fine and dandy when everyone is aware what is going to happen and moves away. Frankly, I wouldn't want to be anywhere next to one when they went off and possibly get Drano or toilet cleaner in my eyes.
      - jlgreco 13y ago
        Surely if you were going to intentionally cause harm in such a way you would save yourself a lot of trouble and just throw Drano at the person.
  - john_b 13y ago
    > Really? I mean, it would've been OK if she did this in the middle of a cafeteria during lunch? And, yes, much of chemistry is highly dangerous and that's the reason it is done in a lab with fume hoods and safety equipment. When I was in school stuff like this did happen in the cafeteria, though to my knowledge it only involved Mentos+Coke and no household chemicals. Kids would do it specifically to make a mess or prank other kids. But that's all it was, a prank, not a terrorist act. Occasionally kids would mix household chemicals together outside to see what would happen. Families that hunted routinely had guns in their cars too. Nobody freaked out, nobody died, and the world kept spinning.
  - pnathan 13y ago
    The narrative is indeed one-sided, and I look forward to hearing more from all sides of the story. Again, barring malicious intent to cause significant harm, I don't think this is a felony. The best punishment is, IMO, probably being stuffed in an AP chemistry class and taught how to do chemistry properly. If she likes it, good, if she doesn't like, well, she shouldn't have done dumb chemistry. :-)
CamperBob2 13y ago
None of that matters. Extracurricular schoolyard pranks with toilet bowl cleaner and aluminum foil do not rise to the level of a felony charge in any sane jurisdiction.
- Zimahl 13y ago
  Extracurricular schoolyard pranks with toilet bowl cleaner and aluminum foil do not rise to the level of a felony charge in any sane jurisdiction. Not in the USA and not on school grounds. The zero tolerance laws are enforced and have teeth. Just recently, an Eagle Scout and honor student was arrested and charged with a felony when he realized he left his hunting rifle in his car at school and did the right thing and called his parent to come pick it up[1]. [1] http://townhall.com/columnists/toddstarnes/2013/05/02/liberty-univ-offers-scholarship-to-eagle-scout-facing-gun-charges-n1585573 http://townhall.com/columnists/toddstarnes/2013/05/02/libert...
  - CamperBob2 13y ago
    What part of "any sane jurisdiction" wasn't clear?
    - Zimahl 13y ago
      Your "sane jurisdiction" might not be the same as others. Personally, I don't think experimenting with explosive devices on school grounds is any more appropriate than having a gun on school grounds. I don't mind zero tolerance laws within reason. If a student forgets their hunting rifle in their car and tries to do the right thing I'm ok with giving them a pass. But a bomb is a bomb - hard to spin that to 'I didn't know any better'.
SoftwareMaven 13y ago
Regardless of whether it was sanctioned or not, this girl does not deserve to be expelled and tried as an adult for two felonies. There is no superlative to describe how idiotic this is. If she had been trying to kill students, then sure. But if she was just satisfying her own curiosity, a slap on the wrist is more than appropriate.
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jen_h 13y ago
Tin foil & toilet cleaner in a plastic bottle. Not sanctioned by the school, but not a tried-as-an-adult-felony. Quotes from her principal: "She made a bad choice," principal Ron Pritchard told WTSP-TV on Wednesday. "Honestly, I don't think she meant to ever hurt anyone. She wanted to see what would happen and was shocked by what it did. Her mother is shocked, too." "She is a good kid," he added. "She has never been in trouble before. Ever. She told us everything and was very honest. She didn't run or try to hide the truth. We had a long conversation with her." (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/05/02/florida-student-arrested-science-experiment-blast/2130381/ http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/05/02/florida...) Everywhere you look lately, messed up adults are failing kids. Chew your Pop-tart into a gun shape? Suspension, because zero tolerance! Shake up some toilet cleaner? Expulsion, felony! Because...zero tolerance. Gangrape, humiliate, and bully? Hide that crap and try to cover it up until the community outrage gets too loud because...wait, what?

by Zimahl 13y ago

pnathan 13y ago

From what I can tell, much of chemistry is highly dangerous. The only real question, afaict, is whether the person knows how to correctly handle the danger. I absolutely am OK with students doing things on school grounds not sponsored by a teacher, not an actual experiment, and generally faffing about in the name of curiosity and learning. Schools shouldn't be running on a whitelist principle. IMO, the only reason this student should be given a felony charge is if she was planning to perform a dangerous detonation with malicious intent to harm. Even if she was being stupid and ignorant and planned to scare her friends, no harm was caused. Harmless foolishness should not be a felony... harmless learning even less so!

Zimahl 13y ago
I absolutely am OK with students doing things on school grounds not sponsored by a teacher, not an actual experiment, and generally faffing about in the name of curiosity and learning. Really? I mean, it would've been OK if she did this in the middle of a cafeteria during lunch? And, yes, much of chemistry is highly dangerous and that's the reason it is done in a lab with fume hoods and safety equipment. MO, the only reason this student should be given a felony charge is if she was planning to perform a dangerous detonation with malicious intent to harm. The reason why I asked for more information is because we don't really know whether or not this wasn't her intent. Was she being bullied and was going to do this to someone else? I have a hard time associating this with 'science' because the narrative seems so one-sided.
- jlgreco 13y ago
  "Was she being bullied and was going to do this to someone else?" Do what to someone else, hurt their ears? Have you ever actually seen a works bomb go off?
  - Zimahl 13y ago
    I've seen one on Youtube and they are all fine and dandy when everyone is aware what is going to happen and moves away. Frankly, I wouldn't want to be anywhere next to one when they went off and possibly get Drano or toilet cleaner in my eyes.
    - jlgreco 13y ago
      Surely if you were going to intentionally cause harm in such a way you would save yourself a lot of trouble and just throw Drano at the person.
- john_b 13y ago
  > Really? I mean, it would've been OK if she did this in the middle of a cafeteria during lunch? And, yes, much of chemistry is highly dangerous and that's the reason it is done in a lab with fume hoods and safety equipment. When I was in school stuff like this did happen in the cafeteria, though to my knowledge it only involved Mentos+Coke and no household chemicals. Kids would do it specifically to make a mess or prank other kids. But that's all it was, a prank, not a terrorist act. Occasionally kids would mix household chemicals together outside to see what would happen. Families that hunted routinely had guns in their cars too. Nobody freaked out, nobody died, and the world kept spinning.
- pnathan 13y ago
  The narrative is indeed one-sided, and I look forward to hearing more from all sides of the story. Again, barring malicious intent to cause significant harm, I don't think this is a felony. The best punishment is, IMO, probably being stuffed in an AP chemistry class and taught how to do chemistry properly. If she likes it, good, if she doesn't like, well, she shouldn't have done dumb chemistry. :-)

CamperBob2 13y ago

None of that matters. Extracurricular schoolyard pranks with toilet bowl cleaner and aluminum foil do not rise to the level of a felony charge in any sane jurisdiction.

Zimahl 13y ago
Extracurricular schoolyard pranks with toilet bowl cleaner and aluminum foil do not rise to the level of a felony charge in any sane jurisdiction. Not in the USA and not on school grounds. The zero tolerance laws are enforced and have teeth. Just recently, an Eagle Scout and honor student was arrested and charged with a felony when he realized he left his hunting rifle in his car at school and did the right thing and called his parent to come pick it up[1]. [1] http://townhall.com/columnists/toddstarnes/2013/05/02/liberty-univ-offers-scholarship-to-eagle-scout-facing-gun-charges-n1585573 http://townhall.com/columnists/toddstarnes/2013/05/02/libert...
- CamperBob2 13y ago
  What part of "any sane jurisdiction" wasn't clear?
  - Zimahl 13y ago
    Your "sane jurisdiction" might not be the same as others. Personally, I don't think experimenting with explosive devices on school grounds is any more appropriate than having a gun on school grounds. I don't mind zero tolerance laws within reason. If a student forgets their hunting rifle in their car and tries to do the right thing I'm ok with giving them a pass. But a bomb is a bomb - hard to spin that to 'I didn't know any better'.

SoftwareMaven 13y ago

Regardless of whether it was sanctioned or not, this girl does not deserve to be expelled and tried as an adult for two felonies. There is no superlative to describe how idiotic this is. If she had been trying to kill students, then sure. But if she was just satisfying her own curiosity, a slap on the wrist is more than appropriate.

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jen_h 13y ago

Tin foil & toilet cleaner in a plastic bottle. Not sanctioned by the school, but not a tried-as-an-adult-felony. Quotes from her principal: "She made a bad choice," principal Ron Pritchard told WTSP-TV on Wednesday. "Honestly, I don't think she meant to ever hurt anyone. She wanted to see what would happen and was shocked by what it did. Her mother is shocked, too." "She is a good kid," he added. "She has never been in trouble before. Ever. She told us everything and was very honest. She didn't run or try to hide the truth. We had a long conversation with her." (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/05/02/florida-student-arrested-science-experiment-blast/2130381/ http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/05/02/florida...) Everywhere you look lately, messed up adults are failing kids. Chew your Pop-tart into a gun shape? Suspension, because zero tolerance! Shake up some toilet cleaner? Expulsion, felony! Because...zero tolerance. Gangrape, humiliate, and bully? Hide that crap and try to cover it up until the community outrage gets too loud because...wait, what?