7 ms·

An Introduction to the Mechanics of Bitcoin

184 points by spicyj 14y ago

sunnybythesea 14y ago
Gotta love online learning...no more waiting for information to be available in a text book and to enroll in classes to get educated.
- obviouslygreen 14y ago
  While this is a point worth making, another is that there's also little to no vetting or editing required to publish "information" on the web compared to getting it into a book and into distribution. Of course the latter isn't perfect and comes with its own evil hegemony and other assorted issues, but the point is that there is so little barrier to entry to posting on the web that praising speed in and of itself ignores relevant and important issues.
  - doktrin 14y ago
    Fair point, but I would argue that "known" and trusted organizations, such as Khan Academy or Coursera, backing a given instructor or set of materials constitutes a form of vetting. It's not like they pick their material out of a hat, and they're all fully aware of the potential repercussions of publishing quackery.
    - PakG1 14y ago
      Don't forget MIT OpenCourseWare. They were first to the party. :) http://ocw.mit.edu http://ocw.mit.edu
      - hkmurakami 14y ago
        They were here for such a long time, way before anyone else and yet they are practically forgotten now. I wish it had been given the attention it deserved by the good folks at MIT.
  - ThomPete 14y ago
    But the system is self-correcting so it's not really a problem.
    - coderdude 14y ago
      It can also be self-destructive. Such is the case with subtle Wikipedia vandalism.
      - baddox 14y ago
        Books with incorrect data can essentially never be changed. Wikipedia pages can be changed immediately.
  - dylanvee 14y ago
    By the same turn, it's also much easier to propose and make corrections. If I discover an error in my computer graphics textbook, I'd have to...call the publisher and see if they can fix it in the next edition, I guess. Perhaps the textbook industry's fixation on keeping students buying the newest editions of their books has actual benefits...
- cantrevealname 14y ago
  Let's not discount the fact that most people need the social pressure that a live classroom brings to bear. Most people--even us self-motivated HN people--are far more likely to do hundreds of hours of coursework if there's a real class, human teachers, and other students than if it's online to pursue at your leisure, or in a book sitting on your shelf for that matter.
  - SilasX 14y ago
    Sure, but that very same social environment can be an impediment at least as well as it can be a motivator. The overwhelming majority of my formal education (through high school and most of college) consisted of classes where most of the students either didn't want to be there, or weren't interested in the course beyond its impact on their grade and future transcript, and so were disruptive to the learning process. And I doubt I'm alone in saying that.
  - nijk 13y ago
    Sure, but you don't need a classroom for that. Forums, sibreddits, etc, can host a class.
- SagelyGuru 14y ago
  Online learning, yes. However, what is wrong with writing? Why this youtube mania for making videos of everything? Not everyone wants to listen to hours of videos of some guy droning on about something that they could have read in a few minutes, with random access ability to concentrate on the few bits that they don't know. I am not saying that this guy does a bad job but, in general, I avoid videos like plague after many bad experiences with them. Especially those where there is just scrolling text and some god awful soundtrack with it.
  - alan_cx 14y ago
    What is wrong with writing? Firstly, nothing. No one said there was. Secondly, from what I can tell, writing is inferior to the human physical expression, which includes speech. It exists to mimic and preserve thought or speech. But it can never be precise, simply because the human body augments speech. When writing gets close to accurately doing that, it become verbose and tedious. Or, to put it another way: Would your kids prefer to read or be read to? Would you prefer the lyrics or the song? The script or the movie? You might, most wouldn't.
    - kang 14y ago
      Writing is not inferior when it hosts a subject being studied. To quote your example, yes, lyrics would be preferred to a song if the meaning is being studied, script would be prefered to movie if dialogues are being studied. Atleast in the current context, books are faster to reread compared to rewinding a video, which can break your flow.
    - jiggy2011 13y ago
      They're just different I guess. Writing is easier to skim, I can scan a 1000 word article in a few seconds to tell if it's likely worth my time to read. I can't do that easily with a 10 minute video. It's also easier to edit. OTOH speech conveys emotion better and feels like it has less mental overhead to consume and produce. I know a few people who are excellent speakers but very poor writers for example.
Siecje 14y ago
Where is Sal?
- ZeroCoin 14y ago
  He doesn't do a lot of the new videos. It's lovely to hear his voice when he does, though. Makes you feel just a bit more special. Perhaps Sal doesn't have a great understanding of cryptography? He doesn't do a single cryptography video on khanacademy as far as I know.
  - spicyj 14y ago
    Sal still makes lots of videos! Lately he's been making a World War I series: https://www.khanacademy.org/humanities/history/euro-hist https://www.khanacademy.org/humanities/history/euro-hist We just like to put up good content from other authors too when we find it. :)
joshuak 14y ago
As a cypherpunk, when I first heard of bitcoin I was incredulous. But after many months of research and experimentation I became satisfied that the bitcoin protocols don't have any obvious flaws. God how I wish I could have saved some of that time with a nice summery video. However, far more importantly then bitcoin I want to know why the hell we don't have proof of work as an email spam filter yet!!!!!!
- defect 14y ago
  There's Hashcash: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hashcash http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hashcash
- new299 14y ago
  yep, as you probably know the proof of work idea came from Hashcash which was designed as a spam filtering system. I guess we've all just got locked in to email as it is. Looks like Spam assassin supports it, I wonder if mutt can be configured to support it.
- makomk 14y ago
  Proof of work as an e-mail spam filter isn't effective protection for two reasons: botnets, and specialized hardware that can compute proofs of work faster than general-purpose PCs.
  - joshuak 13y ago
    That would assume that all spammers use botnets or can easily obtain specialized hardware (which are mutually exclusive). It's still a deterrent and makes it non trivial to be a spammer. Also even on botnets each node is large numbers of emails, so it increases the odds that the owner of the infected computer would notice all the work being done. Makers of specialized 'spam' hardware could potentially be targeted by law enforcement easier then dispirit spammers (especially if the hashing algorithm could be designed to be specific to email systems). I can see some arguments as to why it's not 100% effective, but I don't think it needs to be 100% effective to add additional value. That's why I'm amazed it's still not being done. Just like I'm amazed that we still don't have easy to use email encryption, yet demand it for the web (email traffic is far easier to eavesdrop on, and often far more sensitive).
Iuz 14y ago
Been mining for months now, did not know some of those details, great videos.
jiggy2011 13y ago
Has anybody successfully explained bitcoin to a layman? I have a feeling this video would completely lose my mother.
- fintler 13y ago
  I doubt it would be generally successful as a layman's explanation, but here's my attempt. http://www.bringhurst.org/2013/04/03/how-does-bitcoin-crypto-work.html http://www.bringhurst.org/2013/04/03/how-does-bitcoin-crypto...
- nanofortnight 13y ago
  This reminds me of an old reddit thread: http://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMining/comments/i1xvv/how_does_mining_actually_work/ http://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMining/comments/i1xvv/how_doe...
- nijk 13y ago
  I did. I skipped all the math and just said that is a game where people guess secret numbers that fit a pattern, and when they find one that fits, they get points. Everyone uses computers to help guess, and some people agree to sell real stuff for points. She didn't care enough to challenge my explanation. The hard part of intuitively grasping bitcoin is explaining why money works at all, not why mining works.

184 points by spicyj 14y ago

Gotta love online learning...no more waiting for information to be available in a text book and to enroll in classes to get educated.

obviouslygreen 14y ago
While this is a point worth making, another is that there's also little to no vetting or editing required to publish "information" on the web compared to getting it into a book and into distribution. Of course the latter isn't perfect and comes with its own evil hegemony and other assorted issues, but the point is that there is so little barrier to entry to posting on the web that praising speed in and of itself ignores relevant and important issues.
- doktrin 14y ago
  Fair point, but I would argue that "known" and trusted organizations, such as Khan Academy or Coursera, backing a given instructor or set of materials constitutes a form of vetting. It's not like they pick their material out of a hat, and they're all fully aware of the potential repercussions of publishing quackery.
  - PakG1 14y ago
    Don't forget MIT OpenCourseWare. They were first to the party. :) http://ocw.mit.edu http://ocw.mit.edu
    - hkmurakami 14y ago
      They were here for such a long time, way before anyone else and yet they are practically forgotten now. I wish it had been given the attention it deserved by the good folks at MIT.
- ThomPete 14y ago
  But the system is self-correcting so it's not really a problem.
  - coderdude 14y ago
    It can also be self-destructive. Such is the case with subtle Wikipedia vandalism.
    - baddox 14y ago
      Books with incorrect data can essentially never be changed. Wikipedia pages can be changed immediately.
- dylanvee 14y ago
  By the same turn, it's also much easier to propose and make corrections. If I discover an error in my computer graphics textbook, I'd have to...call the publisher and see if they can fix it in the next edition, I guess. Perhaps the textbook industry's fixation on keeping students buying the newest editions of their books has actual benefits...
cantrevealname 14y ago
Let's not discount the fact that most people need the social pressure that a live classroom brings to bear. Most people--even us self-motivated HN people--are far more likely to do hundreds of hours of coursework if there's a real class, human teachers, and other students than if it's online to pursue at your leisure, or in a book sitting on your shelf for that matter.
- SilasX 14y ago
  Sure, but that very same social environment can be an impediment at least as well as it can be a motivator. The overwhelming majority of my formal education (through high school and most of college) consisted of classes where most of the students either didn't want to be there, or weren't interested in the course beyond its impact on their grade and future transcript, and so were disruptive to the learning process. And I doubt I'm alone in saying that.
- nijk 13y ago
  Sure, but you don't need a classroom for that. Forums, sibreddits, etc, can host a class.
SagelyGuru 14y ago
Online learning, yes. However, what is wrong with writing? Why this youtube mania for making videos of everything? Not everyone wants to listen to hours of videos of some guy droning on about something that they could have read in a few minutes, with random access ability to concentrate on the few bits that they don't know. I am not saying that this guy does a bad job but, in general, I avoid videos like plague after many bad experiences with them. Especially those where there is just scrolling text and some god awful soundtrack with it.
- alan_cx 14y ago
  What is wrong with writing? Firstly, nothing. No one said there was. Secondly, from what I can tell, writing is inferior to the human physical expression, which includes speech. It exists to mimic and preserve thought or speech. But it can never be precise, simply because the human body augments speech. When writing gets close to accurately doing that, it become verbose and tedious. Or, to put it another way: Would your kids prefer to read or be read to? Would you prefer the lyrics or the song? The script or the movie? You might, most wouldn't.
  - kang 14y ago
    Writing is not inferior when it hosts a subject being studied. To quote your example, yes, lyrics would be preferred to a song if the meaning is being studied, script would be prefered to movie if dialogues are being studied. Atleast in the current context, books are faster to reread compared to rewinding a video, which can break your flow.
  - jiggy2011 13y ago
    They're just different I guess. Writing is easier to skim, I can scan a 1000 word article in a few seconds to tell if it's likely worth my time to read. I can't do that easily with a 10 minute video. It's also easier to edit. OTOH speech conveys emotion better and feels like it has less mental overhead to consume and produce. I know a few people who are excellent speakers but very poor writers for example.

Siecje 14y ago

Where is Sal?

ZeroCoin 14y ago
He doesn't do a lot of the new videos. It's lovely to hear his voice when he does, though. Makes you feel just a bit more special. Perhaps Sal doesn't have a great understanding of cryptography? He doesn't do a single cryptography video on khanacademy as far as I know.
- spicyj 14y ago
  Sal still makes lots of videos! Lately he's been making a World War I series: https://www.khanacademy.org/humanities/history/euro-hist https://www.khanacademy.org/humanities/history/euro-hist We just like to put up good content from other authors too when we find it. :)

joshuak 14y ago

As a cypherpunk, when I first heard of bitcoin I was incredulous. But after many months of research and experimentation I became satisfied that the bitcoin protocols don't have any obvious flaws. God how I wish I could have saved some of that time with a nice summery video. However, far more importantly then bitcoin I want to know why the hell we don't have proof of work as an email spam filter yet!!!!!!

defect 14y ago
There's Hashcash: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hashcash http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hashcash
new299 14y ago
yep, as you probably know the proof of work idea came from Hashcash which was designed as a spam filtering system. I guess we've all just got locked in to email as it is. Looks like Spam assassin supports it, I wonder if mutt can be configured to support it.
makomk 14y ago
Proof of work as an e-mail spam filter isn't effective protection for two reasons: botnets, and specialized hardware that can compute proofs of work faster than general-purpose PCs.
- joshuak 13y ago
  That would assume that all spammers use botnets or can easily obtain specialized hardware (which are mutually exclusive). It's still a deterrent and makes it non trivial to be a spammer. Also even on botnets each node is large numbers of emails, so it increases the odds that the owner of the infected computer would notice all the work being done. Makers of specialized 'spam' hardware could potentially be targeted by law enforcement easier then dispirit spammers (especially if the hashing algorithm could be designed to be specific to email systems). I can see some arguments as to why it's not 100% effective, but I don't think it needs to be 100% effective to add additional value. That's why I'm amazed it's still not being done. Just like I'm amazed that we still don't have easy to use email encryption, yet demand it for the web (email traffic is far easier to eavesdrop on, and often far more sensitive).

Iuz 14y ago

Been mining for months now, did not know some of those details, great videos.

jiggy2011 13y ago

Has anybody successfully explained bitcoin to a layman? I have a feeling this video would completely lose my mother.

fintler 13y ago
I doubt it would be generally successful as a layman's explanation, but here's my attempt. http://www.bringhurst.org/2013/04/03/how-does-bitcoin-crypto-work.html http://www.bringhurst.org/2013/04/03/how-does-bitcoin-crypto...
nanofortnight 13y ago
This reminds me of an old reddit thread: http://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMining/comments/i1xvv/how_does_mining_actually_work/ http://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMining/comments/i1xvv/how_doe...
nijk 13y ago
I did. I skipped all the math and just said that is a game where people guess secret numbers that fit a pattern, and when they find one that fits, they get points. Everyone uses computers to help guess, and some people agree to sell real stuff for points. She didn't care enough to challenge my explanation. The hard part of intuitively grasping bitcoin is explaining why money works at all, not why mining works.