4 ms·

If the logo pictured therein represents the mockup he gave to the designer, I hope he'd be prepared to have it entirely modified or discarded. The logo is busy,

by mcav 18y ago

If the logo pictured therein represents the mockup he gave to the designer, I hope he'd be prepared to have it entirely modified or discarded. The logo is busy, repetitive, and difficult to digest. Designers, musicians, and others make a living at their craft because they're good at what they do (ideally). Logo designers have spent hours learning what's good and what isn't. I wouldn't want someone who has a "compositional idea" to come up to me (as a piano player myself) and ask me to morph their idea into a masterpiece unless they fully understood that I might change their idea entirely, or that their idea might not even be feasible. Same goes for startups -- you can't present an idea to a few developers and expect them to roar back with a great startup. It takes persistence, experience, and inspiration to create something good. But inspiration itself comes from having experience at a craft. Not all inspiration is created equal.

cjwestbrook 18y ago
Let me argue the other side for the sake of discussion. Designers, musicians, etc. make their living because they're good at what they do, but what is it that they do? Designers are good at playing with visuals, writers are good at playing with words, musicians are good at setting harmony to a melody. Sometimes, those people are good at creating something from nothing, but it's a different animal. Having worked as a writer, I liked starting from scratch, but I also appreciated when the CEO had a clear vision and story of what his company was about that I could run with. Many great works of music are derivative of a theme from another composer. Jim's point seems to be that giving them something to react to and work with is a huge shortcut with little or no loss.
- mcav 18y ago
  Sure, something's better than nothing. That's what brainstorming is all about -- creating ideas without having any expectation that any particular idea will succeed. Starting with something might spur an idea forward, or it might not. An initial idea's good; multiple ideas are better. As long as the person understands that collaborating with an expert will necessitate change, perhaps back-and-forth consultation, etc., until a good, agreeable conclusion is reached.
lucumo 18y ago
> If the logo pictured therein represents the mockup he gave to the designer, I hope he'd be prepared to have it entirely modified or discarded. The logo is busy, repetitive, and difficult to digest. He adresses the quality of the current logo in a comment, in reply to an anonymous commenter who said something along the same lines (but much more rudely). "Nope, wasn't "implying" that! In fact, a careful read would have indicated the Chowhound logo was NOT created according to this advice. It was, in fact, done by a pro with vast experience, "condensation" or not. "You clearly have no idea what a graphic designer does" Well, hmm. Actually, you, like many (though by no means all) graphic designers, have no idea what a graphic designer ought to do. I'll explain: The function of graphics for commercial use is not to impress graphics people. Its purpose is to set a tone and demarcate a brand for a given market. Chowhound reached nearly a million people and became a nationally-known brand with a marketing budget of exactly zero. A great many people grew emotionally attached to the brand as soon as they came through our door, and identified with it quite strongly. All along, graphics pros such as yourself denigrated our design (totally their right, of course!). But I'd say the design was awesome....not to impress the likes of you, but to accomplish our goal: to attract and engage a vast number of eaters of a certain stripe. THAT'S what a (good) graphic designer does. A bad designer designs to please other designers."

by mcav 18y ago

cjwestbrook 18y ago

Let me argue the other side for the sake of discussion. Designers, musicians, etc. make their living because they're good at what they do, but what is it that they do? Designers are good at playing with visuals, writers are good at playing with words, musicians are good at setting harmony to a melody. Sometimes, those people are good at creating something from nothing, but it's a different animal. Having worked as a writer, I liked starting from scratch, but I also appreciated when the CEO had a clear vision and story of what his company was about that I could run with. Many great works of music are derivative of a theme from another composer. Jim's point seems to be that giving them something to react to and work with is a huge shortcut with little or no loss.

mcav 18y ago
Sure, something's better than nothing. That's what brainstorming is all about -- creating ideas without having any expectation that any particular idea will succeed. Starting with something might spur an idea forward, or it might not. An initial idea's good; multiple ideas are better. As long as the person understands that collaborating with an expert will necessitate change, perhaps back-and-forth consultation, etc., until a good, agreeable conclusion is reached.

lucumo 18y ago

> If the logo pictured therein represents the mockup he gave to the designer, I hope he'd be prepared to have it entirely modified or discarded. The logo is busy, repetitive, and difficult to digest. He adresses the quality of the current logo in a comment, in reply to an anonymous commenter who said something along the same lines (but much more rudely). "Nope, wasn't "implying" that! In fact, a careful read would have indicated the Chowhound logo was NOT created according to this advice. It was, in fact, done by a pro with vast experience, "condensation" or not. "You clearly have no idea what a graphic designer does" Well, hmm. Actually, you, like many (though by no means all) graphic designers, have no idea what a graphic designer ought to do. I'll explain: The function of graphics for commercial use is not to impress graphics people. Its purpose is to set a tone and demarcate a brand for a given market. Chowhound reached nearly a million people and became a nationally-known brand with a marketing budget of exactly zero. A great many people grew emotionally attached to the brand as soon as they came through our door, and identified with it quite strongly. All along, graphics pros such as yourself denigrated our design (totally their right, of course!). But I'd say the design was awesome....not to impress the likes of you, but to accomplish our goal: to attract and engage a vast number of eaters of a certain stripe. THAT'S what a (good) graphic designer does. A bad designer designs to please other designers."