3 ms·

Probably more than anything else in the world. I wouldn't be close to where I am, or who I am, without mine, and that's an observation that I can extend to pre

by bbgm 18y ago

Probably more than anything else in the world. I wouldn't be close to where I am, or who I am, without mine, and that's an observation that I can extend to pretty much everyone I know well.

xenophanes 18y ago
You observed where you would be without your parents? You have an abstract theory, partially supported by some observations you haven't detailed, and which you haven't argued for or clearly stated.
- bbgm 18y ago
  I am pretty sure I would be a different person, perhaps even better, but my character, as I understand it, has been shaped by my parents. Part of that comes from them staying out of my way when it came to certain decisions that would impact the rest of my life (in India parents can get very pushy about going into certain field) and allowing us to have our disagreements (and we have many). I don't need to argue for my observations. I experienced them and quite enjoyed growing up with them.
  - xenophanes 18y ago
    I don't need to argue You don't need to argue, but if you want to find the truth of the matter, then it might help to argue. Through arguing, but not through asserting, we can sometimes learn that we have mistaken ideas and change our minds.
    - bbgm 18y ago
      Don't disagree there, but you cannot explain evening spent talking, Sunday mornings watching birds, Friday evenings in the library, walks explaining why leaves are green and the beauty of mathematics. In other words, how do you distill 20 years into an argument, when no one else was there to experience a second of it? I can't.
      - xenophanes 18y ago
        You've now described your experiences. I'm perfectly willing to accept that it seems to you that that's what happened. But did it happen that way? Once upon a time I talked to this guy, and he runs a group of Objectivists, and says he's a huge fan of Ayn Rand, and how much her books influenced him. And he talked a bit about his life. And you know what? He had lived it roughly in the opposite way to what one of Rand's heros would have done. He played it safe, didn't stand up for his values, settled for less, cared what others thought of him, didn't have the drive to pursue difficult goals, etc He thought he was strongly influenced by something, and lived his life by it, and he'd failed to notice how little he acted on that influence. Such stories are common. I have no idea if your interpretation of what influenced you is correct or not, but I do know that people often are mistaken about these things. Suppose you were genetically programmed, and part of that programming made you think your parents were important. Couldn't that account for your experiences too? (I think it could not, but only due to some philosophical arguments. I think your experiences don't contradict the genetic theory.)
- run4yourlives 18y ago
  His theory however is supported by Occam's razor. Presenting the alternative theory requires evidence to support it, otherwise it too is nothing but an abstract theory.
  - xenophanes 18y ago
    His theory is supported by arguments he didn't give. I agree. I even posted one in comments. I am more concerned with the quality of arguments than with whether I agree with their conclusion.
kragen 18y ago
Without your parents, you would have died shortly after birth.
divia 18y ago
Can you extend that observation to the adopted kids you know? The adopted children I know are far less like their parents than the biological children I know. Granted, the adopted children I know were not implanted in their adopted mothers' wombs, so it's not a perfect comparison, but I definitely think it's worth thinking about. Observation about parents and children who are biologically related doesn't seem to me to be particularly informative when thinking about nature and nurture.
- thismat 18y ago
  Actually one of my children I am not the father of, and he's already quite a bit like me.
  - HeyLaughingBoy 18y ago
    Same here. My son is adopted (by me): he's my wife's biological son and it's amazing (for good or bad :-) how much like me he is. ps, Someone upvote parent please: I accidentally downvoted thismat.
    - thismat 18y ago
      No harm no foul sir, I don't live/die by karma, I just like the community ;)

by bbgm 18y ago

Probably more than anything else in the world. I wouldn't be close to where I am, or who I am, without mine, and that's an observation that I can extend to pretty much everyone I know well.

xenophanes 18y ago

You observed where you would be without your parents? You have an abstract theory, partially supported by some observations you haven't detailed, and which you haven't argued for or clearly stated.

bbgm 18y ago
I am pretty sure I would be a different person, perhaps even better, but my character, as I understand it, has been shaped by my parents. Part of that comes from them staying out of my way when it came to certain decisions that would impact the rest of my life (in India parents can get very pushy about going into certain field) and allowing us to have our disagreements (and we have many). I don't need to argue for my observations. I experienced them and quite enjoyed growing up with them.
- xenophanes 18y ago
  I don't need to argue You don't need to argue, but if you want to find the truth of the matter, then it might help to argue. Through arguing, but not through asserting, we can sometimes learn that we have mistaken ideas and change our minds.
  - bbgm 18y ago
    Don't disagree there, but you cannot explain evening spent talking, Sunday mornings watching birds, Friday evenings in the library, walks explaining why leaves are green and the beauty of mathematics. In other words, how do you distill 20 years into an argument, when no one else was there to experience a second of it? I can't.
    - xenophanes 18y ago
      You've now described your experiences. I'm perfectly willing to accept that it seems to you that that's what happened. But did it happen that way? Once upon a time I talked to this guy, and he runs a group of Objectivists, and says he's a huge fan of Ayn Rand, and how much her books influenced him. And he talked a bit about his life. And you know what? He had lived it roughly in the opposite way to what one of Rand's heros would have done. He played it safe, didn't stand up for his values, settled for less, cared what others thought of him, didn't have the drive to pursue difficult goals, etc He thought he was strongly influenced by something, and lived his life by it, and he'd failed to notice how little he acted on that influence. Such stories are common. I have no idea if your interpretation of what influenced you is correct or not, but I do know that people often are mistaken about these things. Suppose you were genetically programmed, and part of that programming made you think your parents were important. Couldn't that account for your experiences too? (I think it could not, but only due to some philosophical arguments. I think your experiences don't contradict the genetic theory.)
run4yourlives 18y ago
His theory however is supported by Occam's razor. Presenting the alternative theory requires evidence to support it, otherwise it too is nothing but an abstract theory.
- xenophanes 18y ago
  His theory is supported by arguments he didn't give. I agree. I even posted one in comments. I am more concerned with the quality of arguments than with whether I agree with their conclusion.

kragen 18y ago

Without your parents, you would have died shortly after birth.

divia 18y ago

Can you extend that observation to the adopted kids you know? The adopted children I know are far less like their parents than the biological children I know. Granted, the adopted children I know were not implanted in their adopted mothers' wombs, so it's not a perfect comparison, but I definitely think it's worth thinking about. Observation about parents and children who are biologically related doesn't seem to me to be particularly informative when thinking about nature and nurture.

thismat 18y ago
Actually one of my children I am not the father of, and he's already quite a bit like me.
- HeyLaughingBoy 18y ago
  Same here. My son is adopted (by me): he's my wife's biological son and it's amazing (for good or bad :-) how much like me he is. ps, Someone upvote parent please: I accidentally downvoted thismat.
  - thismat 18y ago
    No harm no foul sir, I don't live/die by karma, I just like the community ;)