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> Tobacco was invented in 5000 BC according to wikipedia. At that point in time it had basically none of the bad side effects you mention due to shorter life sp

> Tobacco was invented in 5000 BC according to wikipedia. At that point in time it had basically none of the bad side effects you mention due to shorter life spans. It probably had numerous positive side effects. Another reason that tobacco historically had "basically none of the bad side effects" is that people didn't smoke it nearly in the quantities they do today. Then a few startups (well, they weren't called that back then) came along and it "has made a small number of people incomprehensibly rich, to the great detriment of humanity". > Now you don't like facebook??? Well, honestly, I do. I like it to keep in touch with people and it had real value to me when I moved to a city where I didn't know a single person as it made me feel less alone. I'm sure many others have benefited. Strawman. Nowhere in his post jdietrich mentions Facebook. > The companies mentioned are highly successful. No one argues that these companies aren't successful. The argument is that the fact that they are highly successful does not mean that they are a good for society as a whole. > I could care less about any of the companies mentioned You mean, you couldn't care less, right? :P (Sorry, that particular Americanism is a pet peeve of mine.)

silvertonia 13y ago
I have nothing to add to the discussion at large, so... I find the phrase, "I could care less" charming. I'm not sure if it was originally intended as simple sarcasm (or more likely a misspoken phrase) but to me in its form it has a gentle subtlety. A slightly tongue-in-cheek, "typically when discussing the amount I care about a topic, it falls within an average range. However on this particular topic, I care for it so little that I must be explicit that it would actually be possible for me to care less. For a more meaningful topic, such a statement wouldn't be necessary."
justinhj 13y ago
> You mean, you couldn't care less, right? :P (Sorry, that particular Americanism is a pet peeve of mine.) "I could care less" is an American idiom, and this is a US site. Ad hominem.
- hnriot 13y ago
  It's US hosted, but it's certainly used by people in many countries, what does it even mean to say it is a US site? The network makes geography meaningless. PG could host it in Sunnyvale or Singapore and none of us would notice or care. Ok some would notice, this is hn after all.
- setrofim_ 13y ago
  I was only half serious with that remark (hence the smilie). It was not intended to be an Ad Hominem attack to weaken wtvanhest's argument (though it could have that effect -- thanks for pointing that out). I am aware that "I could care less" is a wide-spread US idiom and understand the intended meaning it conveys; but it still makes me cringe whenever I see it.
- zimpenfish 13y ago
  I always read "I could care less" as "I could care less ... but that would require expending actual effort and no." Then again, I'm not a knee-jerking grammarian prescriptivist.
  - justinhj 13y ago
    I should get that on a t-shirt thanks. Actually I'm British and don't have strong feelings about the phrase either way. If I did, I still don't criticize people for using idioms of their own culture.
- nollidge 13y ago
  There's plenty of Americans that are annoyed by it, too. Also please go learn what "ad hominem" actually means. It does not simply mean "insult".
  - justinhj 13y ago
    I know what it means. Why add it to the end of an argument out of the blue if it's not intended that way? Still it was late at night and I should have added my own smiley. ;)
wtvanhest 13y ago
I respect your logic, but the strawman here is valid. Facebook is a social network and now it is a big one. Pinterest (I don't even know the spelling), could be the next FB). I don't have a pinterest account, but it probably serves real value to the women who use it. Someday, it could be an FB. also, I slur couldnt care less when I speak bc I have no idea the right way to say it!
- andrewflnr 13y ago
  It's "couldn't". "Could care less" is content-free, like "up to X or more". I could, or I couldn't. Whatever. "Couldn't care less", on the other hand, implies that your apathy has hit rock bottom, and there is no room for it to go any lower. "Could care less" is a mistake perpetuated by people who just repeat things that sound good without understanding them.
- setrofim_ 13y ago
  jdietrich argues: "I think nearly all of these 'social' startups are bad news" (emphasis added). This allows that some "social startups" might be a good idea, and is not (at least, not as I interpret it) an argument against social media in general. Besides, Facebook has long stopped being a "startup" so this comment does not apply to it. As I understand it, jdietrich argues against the recent trend of "socialising" every aspect of our lives through increasingly frivolous apps that provide instant gratification but lead to shallow and superficial interactions. This does not mean that you can't have meaningful interactions through social media. Your example of using Facebook to keep in touch with people when moving to a new city is an illustration of that. However it does not invalidate jdietrich's argument in any away.

silvertonia 13y ago

I have nothing to add to the discussion at large, so... I find the phrase, "I could care less" charming. I'm not sure if it was originally intended as simple sarcasm (or more likely a misspoken phrase) but to me in its form it has a gentle subtlety. A slightly tongue-in-cheek, "typically when discussing the amount I care about a topic, it falls within an average range. However on this particular topic, I care for it so little that I must be explicit that it would actually be possible for me to care less. For a more meaningful topic, such a statement wouldn't be necessary."

justinhj 13y ago

> You mean, you couldn't care less, right? :P (Sorry, that particular Americanism is a pet peeve of mine.) "I could care less" is an American idiom, and this is a US site. Ad hominem.

hnriot 13y ago
It's US hosted, but it's certainly used by people in many countries, what does it even mean to say it is a US site? The network makes geography meaningless. PG could host it in Sunnyvale or Singapore and none of us would notice or care. Ok some would notice, this is hn after all.
setrofim_ 13y ago
I was only half serious with that remark (hence the smilie). It was not intended to be an Ad Hominem attack to weaken wtvanhest's argument (though it could have that effect -- thanks for pointing that out). I am aware that "I could care less" is a wide-spread US idiom and understand the intended meaning it conveys; but it still makes me cringe whenever I see it.
zimpenfish 13y ago
I always read "I could care less" as "I could care less ... but that would require expending actual effort and no." Then again, I'm not a knee-jerking grammarian prescriptivist.
- justinhj 13y ago
  I should get that on a t-shirt thanks. Actually I'm British and don't have strong feelings about the phrase either way. If I did, I still don't criticize people for using idioms of their own culture.
nollidge 13y ago
There's plenty of Americans that are annoyed by it, too. Also please go learn what "ad hominem" actually means. It does not simply mean "insult".
- justinhj 13y ago
  I know what it means. Why add it to the end of an argument out of the blue if it's not intended that way? Still it was late at night and I should have added my own smiley. ;)

wtvanhest 13y ago

I respect your logic, but the strawman here is valid. Facebook is a social network and now it is a big one. Pinterest (I don't even know the spelling), could be the next FB). I don't have a pinterest account, but it probably serves real value to the women who use it. Someday, it could be an FB. also, I slur couldnt care less when I speak bc I have no idea the right way to say it!

andrewflnr 13y ago
It's "couldn't". "Could care less" is content-free, like "up to X or more". I could, or I couldn't. Whatever. "Couldn't care less", on the other hand, implies that your apathy has hit rock bottom, and there is no room for it to go any lower. "Could care less" is a mistake perpetuated by people who just repeat things that sound good without understanding them.
setrofim_ 13y ago
jdietrich argues: "I think nearly all of these 'social' startups are bad news" (emphasis added). This allows that some "social startups" might be a good idea, and is not (at least, not as I interpret it) an argument against social media in general. Besides, Facebook has long stopped being a "startup" so this comment does not apply to it. As I understand it, jdietrich argues against the recent trend of "socialising" every aspect of our lives through increasingly frivolous apps that provide instant gratification but lead to shallow and superficial interactions. This does not mean that you can't have meaningful interactions through social media. Your example of using Facebook to keep in touch with people when moving to a new city is an illustration of that. However it does not invalidate jdietrich's argument in any away.