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I think the problem with your service would be on the supply side. Businesses would obviously love to have these best of breed programmers, but the getting peo

I think the problem with your service would be on the supply side. Businesses would obviously love to have these best of breed programmers, but the getting people to take your test will be trickier. To put it differently, how would you respond if I ran a business like this, you took my test, and I reported to companies that you're in the 40th percentile among programmers?

seiji 13y ago
That would be awesome to know. I often don't know how good or bad I am. I often think I'm pretty inept until I look around. I'd love to know how inept I actually am so I can improve. Also, a lot of companies only need 40th percentile programmers. Everybody seems to want to hire I-Can-Create-Google-In-A-Weekend people. Sorry, but your online coffee ordering startup doesn't need me to waste an hour in pre-interviews rehashing sorting algorithms from undergrad. I've a library of work. Let's talk like humans, not machines requiring proof-of-work tests against each other.
- rprospero 13y ago
  Honestly, I agree with you. My main concern is that I've known too many programmers with their self-esteem wrapped up in the idea that they're the world's greatest who would balk at any test that didn't end with being given a Turing award. Now, any business that can keep these guys out of your hiring pool is already a net positive, but it's also going to kill a disappointingly large part of your base. Also, while I agree that the coffee shop website doesn't require Donald Knuth, the hard part will be convincing the coffee shop owner that that's true. Especially with the meme that "A players hire A player; B players hire C players". It's just an issue of marketing. If your firm was promising a 40% programmer for $50k and mine was promising a 99.9% programmer for $25k, most of the hiring manager I've known would hire mine, despite my testing procedure obviously being crap.
  - duaneb 13y ago
    Perhaps one that displayed rating with an average salary of that rating might fix this problem?
michaelochurch 13y ago
Well, I wouldn't want any such service to become a hard requirement for getting jobs. I'm just saying that it would be better for me, personally, if I had a reliable way of demonstrating, on the drop, where I stand. Also, I'd want people to get some direction on how to improve. Who cares if you're a 40th percentile programmer now? What matters is what it will take to get you to 80 or 90 or 99. That's what's actually important: getting better. The main thing for me, however, is that it'd be great to have some insight into which companies and managers improve peoples' careers (for the long term) and which hurt. Transparency into that could bring about a dramatically different market.

seiji 13y ago

That would be awesome to know. I often don't know how good or bad I am. I often think I'm pretty inept until I look around. I'd love to know how inept I actually am so I can improve. Also, a lot of companies only need 40th percentile programmers. Everybody seems to want to hire I-Can-Create-Google-In-A-Weekend people. Sorry, but your online coffee ordering startup doesn't need me to waste an hour in pre-interviews rehashing sorting algorithms from undergrad. I've a library of work. Let's talk like humans, not machines requiring proof-of-work tests against each other.

rprospero 13y ago
Honestly, I agree with you. My main concern is that I've known too many programmers with their self-esteem wrapped up in the idea that they're the world's greatest who would balk at any test that didn't end with being given a Turing award. Now, any business that can keep these guys out of your hiring pool is already a net positive, but it's also going to kill a disappointingly large part of your base. Also, while I agree that the coffee shop website doesn't require Donald Knuth, the hard part will be convincing the coffee shop owner that that's true. Especially with the meme that "A players hire A player; B players hire C players". It's just an issue of marketing. If your firm was promising a 40% programmer for $50k and mine was promising a 99.9% programmer for $25k, most of the hiring manager I've known would hire mine, despite my testing procedure obviously being crap.
- duaneb 13y ago
  Perhaps one that displayed rating with an average salary of that rating might fix this problem?

michaelochurch 13y ago

Well, I wouldn't want any such service to become a hard requirement for getting jobs. I'm just saying that it would be better for me, personally, if I had a reliable way of demonstrating, on the drop, where I stand. Also, I'd want people to get some direction on how to improve. Who cares if you're a 40th percentile programmer now? What matters is what it will take to get you to 80 or 90 or 99. That's what's actually important: getting better. The main thing for me, however, is that it'd be great to have some insight into which companies and managers improve peoples' careers (for the long term) and which hurt. Transparency into that could bring about a dramatically different market.