3 ms·

One of the driving motivations was simplicity for developers and get a reasonable out-of-the-box experience. This comes from a couple things. Go compiles to a

by crankycoder1975 13y ago

One of the driving motivations was simplicity for developers and get a reasonable out-of-the-box experience. This comes from a couple things. Go compiles to a single static library so you don't have to worry about having dozens of "the right" library installed on your machine. Grab the heka binary and run with it. This greatly eases our operations work as we have fewer dependency conflicts to deal with when we push things to production.

dkhenry 13y ago
Interesting so its more of a ease of use then a performance issue ? The numbers you quotes for performance seemed impressive.
- crankycoder1975 13y ago
  We needed performance as well as simplicity. We started by extending logstash, but our needs were more "we need a router" and logstash isn't meant to be a router. Statically linking the world isn't trivial. For our existing Python code bases - how are you going to deal with third party libraries from PyPI? Come by on #heka on irc.mozilla.org, we're kicking around in there.
  - mapleoin 13y ago
    > Statically linking the world isn't trivial. For our existing Python code bases - how are you going to deal with third party libraries from PyPI? Depends on what you want? You could freeze the pip-requires to always install the same version and use a virtualenv per application. This is basically the same as bundling everything together, it has all the benefits with the least amount of work. You could use distribution packages for security, correctness and stability or even roll your own repository inside your infrastructure to absolutely control everything. Finally you could just bundle everything manually by fooling around with the PYTHONPATH and putting all the dependencies in a single directory. This is kind of like improvising your own virtualenv, it's very hacky, but it can work.
    - nonsequitarian 13y ago
      Another member of the Heka team here. Yes, there are a lot of options for managing Python deployments. But none of Python's stories are as nice as "Here's a single binary, put this on every machine."
      - jonastryggvi 13y ago
        Exactly! I started playing with Go a few days ago, and immediately started thinking that this would be the perfect language to create something like LogStash, Flume or SplunkAgents in - and install to the machines that need to forward data to our centralised logging system. It really bugs me that I have to have an Python interpeter on the frontend web machines (cause I would prefer not to have a C compiler there)..
        mapleoin 13y ago
        > It really bugs me that I have to have an Python interpeter on the frontend web machines (cause I would prefer not to have a C compiler there).. You don't need to have a C compiler installed for the Python interpreter to work. I hope you're joking...
mapleoin 13y ago
That doesn't make a lot of sense. You don't have to write a monitoring software from scratch just because you want statically compiled bundled libraries. You can do that with any programming language.
- tptacek 13y ago
  How do you run Python, Java, Perl, Ruby, or any JVM language without an installed runtime?
  - rdw 13y ago
    Technically, you could use something like PyInstaller[1] to bundle the runtime and all libraries into an executable package. Practically, no one ever does that. :) [1] http://www.pyinstaller.org/ http://www.pyinstaller.org/
  - coldtea 13y ago
    Quite easily. All offer options for building standalone programs that don't need a pre-installed runtime. You just copy them to some directory, run them and they work. And some of them even support building native binaries (e.g Java through gcc).
    - tptacek 13y ago
      Virtually nobody in practice uses any of these.† Java binaries are in practice JVM bytecode in classfiles. Python programs are run by the Python interpreter. Go compiles to native code. Not only do you not need a preinstalled Go runtime on a target system, but there's very little advantage to even having one. The normal way of installing a Golang program is simply to copy the binary and run it. That's powerfully simpler than most other modern programming languages, with the obvious exception(s) of C/C++/ObjC. † Commenter downthread says the same thing, but let me add that we look at other people's Python/Java/Ruby programs professionally, and I can't recall a single client ever doing anything like this.
      - 13y ago

dkhenry 13y ago

Interesting so its more of a ease of use then a performance issue ? The numbers you quotes for performance seemed impressive.

crankycoder1975 13y ago
We needed performance as well as simplicity. We started by extending logstash, but our needs were more "we need a router" and logstash isn't meant to be a router. Statically linking the world isn't trivial. For our existing Python code bases - how are you going to deal with third party libraries from PyPI? Come by on #heka on irc.mozilla.org, we're kicking around in there.
- mapleoin 13y ago
  > Statically linking the world isn't trivial. For our existing Python code bases - how are you going to deal with third party libraries from PyPI? Depends on what you want? You could freeze the pip-requires to always install the same version and use a virtualenv per application. This is basically the same as bundling everything together, it has all the benefits with the least amount of work. You could use distribution packages for security, correctness and stability or even roll your own repository inside your infrastructure to absolutely control everything. Finally you could just bundle everything manually by fooling around with the PYTHONPATH and putting all the dependencies in a single directory. This is kind of like improvising your own virtualenv, it's very hacky, but it can work.
  - nonsequitarian 13y ago
    Another member of the Heka team here. Yes, there are a lot of options for managing Python deployments. But none of Python's stories are as nice as "Here's a single binary, put this on every machine."
    - jonastryggvi 13y ago
      Exactly! I started playing with Go a few days ago, and immediately started thinking that this would be the perfect language to create something like LogStash, Flume or SplunkAgents in - and install to the machines that need to forward data to our centralised logging system. It really bugs me that I have to have an Python interpeter on the frontend web machines (cause I would prefer not to have a C compiler there)..
      - mapleoin 13y ago
        > It really bugs me that I have to have an Python interpeter on the frontend web machines (cause I would prefer not to have a C compiler there).. You don't need to have a C compiler installed for the Python interpreter to work. I hope you're joking...

mapleoin 13y ago

That doesn't make a lot of sense. You don't have to write a monitoring software from scratch just because you want statically compiled bundled libraries. You can do that with any programming language.

tptacek 13y ago
How do you run Python, Java, Perl, Ruby, or any JVM language without an installed runtime?
- rdw 13y ago
  Technically, you could use something like PyInstaller[1] to bundle the runtime and all libraries into an executable package. Practically, no one ever does that. :) [1] http://www.pyinstaller.org/ http://www.pyinstaller.org/
- coldtea 13y ago
  Quite easily. All offer options for building standalone programs that don't need a pre-installed runtime. You just copy them to some directory, run them and they work. And some of them even support building native binaries (e.g Java through gcc).
  - tptacek 13y ago
    Virtually nobody in practice uses any of these.† Java binaries are in practice JVM bytecode in classfiles. Python programs are run by the Python interpreter. Go compiles to native code. Not only do you not need a preinstalled Go runtime on a target system, but there's very little advantage to even having one. The normal way of installing a Golang program is simply to copy the binary and run it. That's powerfully simpler than most other modern programming languages, with the obvious exception(s) of C/C++/ObjC. † Commenter downthread says the same thing, but let me add that we look at other people's Python/Java/Ruby programs professionally, and I can't recall a single client ever doing anything like this.
    - 13y ago