5 ms·

I was wondering the same thing the other day. I think she's hiding out and probably not sure about her next move. I don't know her at all but I emailed her to t

I was wondering the same thing the other day. I think she's hiding out and probably not sure about her next move. I don't know her at all but I emailed her to tell her that she has done lots of good and will be forgiven if she explains where she screwed up. Nobody deserves to be told they should be raped etc. and I think the only way for some of the public overreaction to stop is for her to admit her own overreaction. I don't think she's a bad person, but this was a bad mistake to make and stay silent after and she might be remembered as only this is if she doesn't speak up. I also worry this has made women in tech appear fragile and oversensitive. I don't like how she's trying to speak for me, a women in tech, because she doesn't handle herself like a woman, she handles herself like a child. Have a tantrum and run away. The longer she waits, the harder it will be for the public to forgive her. Come on Adria, you must be better than this. You seem so smart, please just step up to the plate. Women in tech need you now to return our reputation to what it was before your outburst.

ahoyhere 13y ago
I agree with you on all counts… especially that she acted like a child. It sounds like her behavior is motivated by building up her own self-image. In her blog post, she portrayed herself as a hero (actually called herself a hero), and later she referred to herself as Joan of Arc. Unfortunately that kind of thinking about ones' self rarely gets better. Challenges to the self-image just cause the person to dig in deeper to defend it. Unfortunate.
- mtrimpe 13y ago
  I really can't figure out why are women in tech so hard on themselves... From what I can tell Adria was a woman who misjudged the level of public support for her 'cause' and what was appropriate in 'defending it.' She crossed a line she didn't expect to be there and when she did, the support she thought would be there evaporated before her eyes and she was very publicly thrown to the lions. Yes, she may not have been the smartest cookie for not having that figured out but many men have crossed a similar invisible line known as sexual harassment, yet when was the last time you saw a man's career publicly shot to pieces because they 'misread the signals?'
  - katherineparker 13y ago
    I'm not trying to demonize her. People harassing her online are inappropriate and should apologize as well (but probably won't because they're anonymous cowards). The men were technically violating the conference's code of conduct and have already apologized. It's her turn now, that's all I'm saying. edit: Sorry, I did not understand your post (I think you may have edited it later?). I'm not hard on myself. Not sure where you gathered that from. I just don't like someone representing a group I'm a part of if they are going to fuck up its reputation by acting reckless.
    - mtrimpe 13y ago
      I was responding to ahoyhere with my comment and I edited it after I realised it she is also a woman in tech. I guess I really wish that the 'women in tech' had responded more along the lines of "Yes she's acting like a childish <expletive of choice> and we don't like it either, but don't you dare treat her like this.' P.S. This is from a queer in tech who was once similarly cast to the lions for complaining (in private ;) about management calling LGBT co-workers faggots, so that might have polarised me a bit on issues like these.
      - katherineparker 13y ago
        I agree with what you're saying and also sorry for butting in :P (I was a bit confused). Adria definitely doesn't deserve what is happening to her. I think the reason a lot of people lack sympathy is because her situation is like her being bullied for being a bully. Bullying is wrong no matter what (or who it's done to) and people need to remember that.
      - ahoyhere 13y ago
        > I really can't figure out why are women in tech so hard on themselves... I'm not hard on myself at all. Frankly, I think I'm quite gentle on a person who crowed about her heroism, her impact on the ages, her contribution to "the great fight", of attacking a couple of blameless strangers, posting their photos online without their permission, who used her ability to stop a conversation entirely to get others kicked out of a conference and to silence them… and who did it all because the other people were of a different gender. Those are the actions of a bully. I don't have to sympathize with somebody's actions because they share my chromosomes. I am not a bully. I don't defend bullies. I don't care what they've got in their pants. Bullies are bullies and they come in every shape and form. I don't have to use the word "we" to include myself as if I belong with people I don't know, have never met, have nothing in common with, disagree violently with, etc. I don't have to make a statement "as a woman in tech" that death threats are wrong. (Do you feel the need to make a statement against child abuse every time somebody talks about a "gay" Catholic priest molesting a choir boy? No? Probably because it goes without saying, right, and has absolutely nothing to do with you to begin with?) BTW - actually calling people "faggots" is not even in the same city, much less ballpark, as a couple of strangers behind you giggling over a "dongle" joke to themselves, that was not directed at you, did not involve you, and did not refer to anyone in the audience or on the stage. "Dongle" is not a slur, it's not a title, it's not a word of oppression, and guess what, it's a silly joke on the level of a 3rd grader going "YOU SAID 'IT'!!" -- totally harmless. Bullies who glory in their bullying with the expectation that their powerful in-group will congratulate them, on the other hand? That's exactly like people who call other people faggots.
workbench 13y ago
> don't think she's a bad person I find racists usually are, so I'd disagree
rada 13y ago
Women in tech need you now to return our reputation to what it was before your outburst. I disagree. She needs to attend to her physical safety, first and foremost, and her mental health, a close second. The overreaction to her tiny tweet was about a million to one and her very public flogging was so out of proportion and so misogynistic and racist that if I were her, I'd be scarred for life. It reminded me of those 3rd world stories that pop up every once in a while where some poor woman gets raped by an entire village as punishment for adultery. Let's not pile up on an already unfortunate situation by suggesting that the perpetrator of a tiny crime (if a rather temperate tweet that called a joke "not cool" can even be called a crime) has to apologize in the wake of other people's much, much larger crimes (from the firing of one of the jokers to rape threats to death threats). On a larger note, it's never a minority group's responsibility to keep the majority prejudice-free. We really need to dispose of the silly notion that it's our responsibility as women in tech to be 100% perfect lest some men decide to withdraw their respect. We do not deserve to be held to a higher standard than men who engage in irrational, drama llama or otherwise childish behavior all the time (case in point, the dongle joke that started the whole thing). Our reputation does not need to be "returned" because it was never "lost". Adria Richards, take care of yourself. P.S. You said, I don't like how she's trying to speak for me and want her to apologize. Do you not see that she was not trying to speak for you any more than you tried to speak for me just now? That being born a woman does not make you the speaker for, or responsible for the reputation of, your entire gender? Otherwise you have exact same thing to apologize for.
- katherineparker 13y ago
  Thanks for the input and keeping the conversation going. I respect you have your opinion but I want to address some points (just to specify, and you're of course entitled to your opinion either way): I'm not putting her at a higher standard than a man and I don't think anyone else is. If a guy did this, I honestly think even more people would freak out. I am speaking for women in tech and I absolutely do not have anything similar to apologize for, simply because of this fact: She said she is speaking for women in tech and she did something stupid. I'm speaking for women in tech saying Adria don't represent women and say you're doing something for women (you're a "hero") when you're actually doing something very wrong. If you want to represent us, apologize then. So yes, that does tarnish us to some degree. She needs to take responsibility for that. If she didn't proclaim to represent us then it wouldn't be a problem to me. I really don't see how that can be argued and why you're as offended as if I ruined someone's career/life at pycon. But it is your opinion.
caoimhin 13y ago
At some point you should reread what you wrote and decide where in that message you became patronising/bullying.

ahoyhere 13y ago

I agree with you on all counts… especially that she acted like a child. It sounds like her behavior is motivated by building up her own self-image. In her blog post, she portrayed herself as a hero (actually called herself a hero), and later she referred to herself as Joan of Arc. Unfortunately that kind of thinking about ones' self rarely gets better. Challenges to the self-image just cause the person to dig in deeper to defend it. Unfortunate.

mtrimpe 13y ago
I really can't figure out why are women in tech so hard on themselves... From what I can tell Adria was a woman who misjudged the level of public support for her 'cause' and what was appropriate in 'defending it.' She crossed a line she didn't expect to be there and when she did, the support she thought would be there evaporated before her eyes and she was very publicly thrown to the lions. Yes, she may not have been the smartest cookie for not having that figured out but many men have crossed a similar invisible line known as sexual harassment, yet when was the last time you saw a man's career publicly shot to pieces because they 'misread the signals?'
- katherineparker 13y ago
  I'm not trying to demonize her. People harassing her online are inappropriate and should apologize as well (but probably won't because they're anonymous cowards). The men were technically violating the conference's code of conduct and have already apologized. It's her turn now, that's all I'm saying. edit: Sorry, I did not understand your post (I think you may have edited it later?). I'm not hard on myself. Not sure where you gathered that from. I just don't like someone representing a group I'm a part of if they are going to fuck up its reputation by acting reckless.
  - mtrimpe 13y ago
    I was responding to ahoyhere with my comment and I edited it after I realised it she is also a woman in tech. I guess I really wish that the 'women in tech' had responded more along the lines of "Yes she's acting like a childish <expletive of choice> and we don't like it either, but don't you dare treat her like this.' P.S. This is from a queer in tech who was once similarly cast to the lions for complaining (in private ;) about management calling LGBT co-workers faggots, so that might have polarised me a bit on issues like these.
    - katherineparker 13y ago
      I agree with what you're saying and also sorry for butting in :P (I was a bit confused). Adria definitely doesn't deserve what is happening to her. I think the reason a lot of people lack sympathy is because her situation is like her being bullied for being a bully. Bullying is wrong no matter what (or who it's done to) and people need to remember that.
    - ahoyhere 13y ago
      > I really can't figure out why are women in tech so hard on themselves... I'm not hard on myself at all. Frankly, I think I'm quite gentle on a person who crowed about her heroism, her impact on the ages, her contribution to "the great fight", of attacking a couple of blameless strangers, posting their photos online without their permission, who used her ability to stop a conversation entirely to get others kicked out of a conference and to silence them… and who did it all because the other people were of a different gender. Those are the actions of a bully. I don't have to sympathize with somebody's actions because they share my chromosomes. I am not a bully. I don't defend bullies. I don't care what they've got in their pants. Bullies are bullies and they come in every shape and form. I don't have to use the word "we" to include myself as if I belong with people I don't know, have never met, have nothing in common with, disagree violently with, etc. I don't have to make a statement "as a woman in tech" that death threats are wrong. (Do you feel the need to make a statement against child abuse every time somebody talks about a "gay" Catholic priest molesting a choir boy? No? Probably because it goes without saying, right, and has absolutely nothing to do with you to begin with?) BTW - actually calling people "faggots" is not even in the same city, much less ballpark, as a couple of strangers behind you giggling over a "dongle" joke to themselves, that was not directed at you, did not involve you, and did not refer to anyone in the audience or on the stage. "Dongle" is not a slur, it's not a title, it's not a word of oppression, and guess what, it's a silly joke on the level of a 3rd grader going "YOU SAID 'IT'!!" -- totally harmless. Bullies who glory in their bullying with the expectation that their powerful in-group will congratulate them, on the other hand? That's exactly like people who call other people faggots.

workbench 13y ago

> don't think she's a bad person I find racists usually are, so I'd disagree

rada 13y ago

Women in tech need you now to return our reputation to what it was before your outburst. I disagree. She needs to attend to her physical safety, first and foremost, and her mental health, a close second. The overreaction to her tiny tweet was about a million to one and her very public flogging was so out of proportion and so misogynistic and racist that if I were her, I'd be scarred for life. It reminded me of those 3rd world stories that pop up every once in a while where some poor woman gets raped by an entire village as punishment for adultery. Let's not pile up on an already unfortunate situation by suggesting that the perpetrator of a tiny crime (if a rather temperate tweet that called a joke "not cool" can even be called a crime) has to apologize in the wake of other people's much, much larger crimes (from the firing of one of the jokers to rape threats to death threats). On a larger note, it's never a minority group's responsibility to keep the majority prejudice-free. We really need to dispose of the silly notion that it's our responsibility as women in tech to be 100% perfect lest some men decide to withdraw their respect. We do not deserve to be held to a higher standard than men who engage in irrational, drama llama or otherwise childish behavior all the time (case in point, the dongle joke that started the whole thing). Our reputation does not need to be "returned" because it was never "lost". Adria Richards, take care of yourself. P.S. You said, I don't like how she's trying to speak for me and want her to apologize. Do you not see that she was not trying to speak for you any more than you tried to speak for me just now? That being born a woman does not make you the speaker for, or responsible for the reputation of, your entire gender? Otherwise you have exact same thing to apologize for.

katherineparker 13y ago
Thanks for the input and keeping the conversation going. I respect you have your opinion but I want to address some points (just to specify, and you're of course entitled to your opinion either way): I'm not putting her at a higher standard than a man and I don't think anyone else is. If a guy did this, I honestly think even more people would freak out. I am speaking for women in tech and I absolutely do not have anything similar to apologize for, simply because of this fact: She said she is speaking for women in tech and she did something stupid. I'm speaking for women in tech saying Adria don't represent women and say you're doing something for women (you're a "hero") when you're actually doing something very wrong. If you want to represent us, apologize then. So yes, that does tarnish us to some degree. She needs to take responsibility for that. If she didn't proclaim to represent us then it wouldn't be a problem to me. I really don't see how that can be argued and why you're as offended as if I ruined someone's career/life at pycon. But it is your opinion.

caoimhin 13y ago

At some point you should reread what you wrote and decide where in that message you became patronising/bullying.