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> Of course that only applies to the salary over one million. Of course! So have a look at me: worked 8 years in IT and saved about 150,000 USD in that time pe

> Of course that only applies to the salary over one million. Of course! So have a look at me: worked 8 years in IT and saved about 150,000 USD in that time period. I paid taxes on this, mind you. To save this amount I had to live on much lower standard of living that my peers. My wife and my kid too. I quit the job, I'm trying to run a startup. I have a child, a wife and expenses related to that. Instead of getting regular income as everybody else, I spend my savings (accumulated capital) to try create something of value for the public. I take risks. My family does too. We live on 40000 dollars a year or less. Because I'm putting everything into this business. 2 years and 80000 so far plus income I lost by not working in 8-5 job in these 2 years. Let's say it works out. I sell the business after 3 years for 1,000,000 dollars. You are telling me that it is fine to take 750,000 from me and from my family? For all the risks I took? For all the hard work? For years of living below standard my family could have afforded but decided to take risk and save, and invest? So, you would like to see me with just 1/4 of this? And give 3/4 to people who didn't take any risks, didn't save, are living comfortably (better than me!) I don't think you understand. France is history.

eru 14y ago
> I sell the business after 3 years for 1,000,000 dollars. [...] I don't know about French taxation, but I don't think the sale of the business would be taxed as a million dollars of income.
rguillebert 14y ago
The 75% tax only applies to salaries not if you sell your business and it's a marginal tax rate, if you earn 1,000,000 euros it doesn't apply to you.
lke 14y ago
What don't you understand in "over one million" ? If you sell it for 1,000,001 the 75% rate only applies to the extra 1. Not the whole 1,000,001 just the 1 that is over the million. That's what is called a marginal taxe rate. Each tax braket only applies to the money within the backet range. If you make 1,000,001 the first 6,000 are not taxed and the last one is taxed at 75%. (Or will be if we ever get that). -- Edit : There also seems to be a concensus about selling not being taxed like a salary. I wouldn't know. But there was also quite a debate on whether the taxes on selling companies was to high.
- LekkoscPiwa 14y ago
  True. But the first million is not tax free neither. If over 1,000,000 is 75% then I'd assume that below 1,000,000 isn't much better. I'd assume if I sell for 2,000,000 the total tax will be at least 50%. How is this fair?
  - wazoox 14y ago
    It's fair because you're driving on roads, bring your children to school, may need to go to hospital at times, and profit from a judicial system able to enforce law and your company's contracts, among other things. If you want to live in a country without taxes, try Somalia, or Congo.
    - rfrey 14y ago
      The debate is not between "taxes" and "no taxes." We're all clever enough to understand shades of gray.
      - eli_gottlieb 14y ago
        No, in my experience there are no shades of gray. It's just "taxation is theft". There is no level of taxes, no matter how low in real terms, where people actually stop complaining.
        LekkoscPiwa 13y ago
        It's not about complaining. It's about policies that make sense. Look, I have saved for few years to have initial funding for my business. This means I had to take away from myself and my family. To save for future business. So, in that period of time, I had lower standard of living that my coworkers. Right? Maybe my daughter couldn't get the toys her friend. could. Maybe we couldn't go for a vacation in 5 years. Maybe we had to live is small apartment vs. a house. Drive car that's not really nice. All of this to save money to invest in future business. Once the money was saved, I quit the regular job. Now, it's even worse. I have no income at all. And still have to pay bills for the family + spend on the business. The statistics are 1 in 10 startups make it. 10% chances. So after additional 2 years working on the startup and burning all the savings, let's say - 10% chance - it worked. I made it, I sold the business. You are telling me to tax people like me at 50%. And how do you think now, why in France there is no Silicon Valley? Because nobody in their right mind is going to work their butt off to be taxed at the end at 50%. It just doesn't add up. It would be better for me to stay with a regular job if I were in France. And in the end that's bad for France. It makes it much less competitive, much less innovative, and scares prospect capital off its borders. California alone has bigger economy than France. But in California nobody will punish you with a tax at 50% for trying to be innovative. And California has good roads and sewage system too. Without extreme taxation and business unfriendly environment.
unexpected 14y ago
If you sold the business, this would not be a salary - this would be a capital gains transaction.
wazoox 14y ago
> I sell the business after 3 years for 1,000,000 dollars. You are telling me that it is fine to take 750,000 from me and from my family? You're so very wrong. 1° the 75 % tax doesn't apply if you reinvest the money in a new company. There are several different ways to avoid paying the tax through investment. It's a tax on revenue, earnings, NOT capital. If you use your money as capital, basically you'll never pay more than about 35% taxes overall. 2° you don't understand how marginal tax rates work. You pay 75% of tax on everything ABOVE 1 million. So if you sell your company for 2 millions, the 75% applies on the second million but not the first one.

eru 14y ago

> I sell the business after 3 years for 1,000,000 dollars. [...] I don't know about French taxation, but I don't think the sale of the business would be taxed as a million dollars of income.

rguillebert 14y ago

The 75% tax only applies to salaries not if you sell your business and it's a marginal tax rate, if you earn 1,000,000 euros it doesn't apply to you.

lke 14y ago

What don't you understand in "over one million" ? If you sell it for 1,000,001 the 75% rate only applies to the extra 1. Not the whole 1,000,001 just the 1 that is over the million. That's what is called a marginal taxe rate. Each tax braket only applies to the money within the backet range. If you make 1,000,001 the first 6,000 are not taxed and the last one is taxed at 75%. (Or will be if we ever get that). -- Edit : There also seems to be a concensus about selling not being taxed like a salary. I wouldn't know. But there was also quite a debate on whether the taxes on selling companies was to high.

LekkoscPiwa 14y ago
True. But the first million is not tax free neither. If over 1,000,000 is 75% then I'd assume that below 1,000,000 isn't much better. I'd assume if I sell for 2,000,000 the total tax will be at least 50%. How is this fair?
- wazoox 14y ago
  It's fair because you're driving on roads, bring your children to school, may need to go to hospital at times, and profit from a judicial system able to enforce law and your company's contracts, among other things. If you want to live in a country without taxes, try Somalia, or Congo.
  - rfrey 14y ago
    The debate is not between "taxes" and "no taxes." We're all clever enough to understand shades of gray.
    - eli_gottlieb 14y ago
      No, in my experience there are no shades of gray. It's just "taxation is theft". There is no level of taxes, no matter how low in real terms, where people actually stop complaining.
      - LekkoscPiwa 13y ago
        It's not about complaining. It's about policies that make sense. Look, I have saved for few years to have initial funding for my business. This means I had to take away from myself and my family. To save for future business. So, in that period of time, I had lower standard of living that my coworkers. Right? Maybe my daughter couldn't get the toys her friend. could. Maybe we couldn't go for a vacation in 5 years. Maybe we had to live is small apartment vs. a house. Drive car that's not really nice. All of this to save money to invest in future business. Once the money was saved, I quit the regular job. Now, it's even worse. I have no income at all. And still have to pay bills for the family + spend on the business. The statistics are 1 in 10 startups make it. 10% chances. So after additional 2 years working on the startup and burning all the savings, let's say - 10% chance - it worked. I made it, I sold the business. You are telling me to tax people like me at 50%. And how do you think now, why in France there is no Silicon Valley? Because nobody in their right mind is going to work their butt off to be taxed at the end at 50%. It just doesn't add up. It would be better for me to stay with a regular job if I were in France. And in the end that's bad for France. It makes it much less competitive, much less innovative, and scares prospect capital off its borders. California alone has bigger economy than France. But in California nobody will punish you with a tax at 50% for trying to be innovative. And California has good roads and sewage system too. Without extreme taxation and business unfriendly environment.

unexpected 14y ago

If you sold the business, this would not be a salary - this would be a capital gains transaction.

wazoox 14y ago

> I sell the business after 3 years for 1,000,000 dollars. You are telling me that it is fine to take 750,000 from me and from my family? You're so very wrong. 1° the 75 % tax doesn't apply if you reinvest the money in a new company. There are several different ways to avoid paying the tax through investment. It's a tax on revenue, earnings, NOT capital. If you use your money as capital, basically you'll never pay more than about 35% taxes overall. 2° you don't understand how marginal tax rates work. You pay 75% of tax on everything ABOVE 1 million. So if you sell your company for 2 millions, the 75% applies on the second million but not the first one.