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You're assuming that the laws should always be enforced. Remember that governments, even governments that are wealthy and technologically advanced do go crazy a

by olefoo 13y ago

You're assuming that the laws should always be enforced. Remember that governments, even governments that are wealthy and technologically advanced do go crazy and engage in genocide against their subjects under color of law. It has happened before, it could happen here. I'll tell you what; we can discuss broad based mandatory surveillance capabilities AFTER the US Government lives up to it's treaty obligations under the International Convention Against Torture [1], and prosecutes those Government Officials who authorized, engineered and abetted a torture regime during the past 2 decades. 1. http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Convention_against_Torture http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Convention_against_Torture

jfoutz 13y ago
Laws should always be enforced. Prosecutors that are ignoring the law need to be removed. It has happened here, ask a native american. Throwing up an arbitrary, "here's something I don't like, we can make no progress till you fix it" is a tactic to avoid the issue.
- fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
  >Laws should always be enforced. That's rather naive. We need to fix a lot of laws before we could do that because: 1. It's not unheard of for laws to be contradictory in some circumstances, or just outright contradictory. 2. Do you really want everyone to be automatically ticketed for jaywalking? Laws were written with policemen's, and the court's discretion in mind, whether you want to believe that or not, and switching to an automatic always on enforcement mode would be oppressing in the extreme.
  - jfoutz 13y ago
    I've always been uncomfortable with one set of written rules that doesn't really matter, and another secret set of unwritten rules that actually matters. If some cab driver gets a ticket from a speed camera becasue he's rushing to get a pregnant woman to the hospital, i've got no problem letting that ticket go - that should be an easy and painless process as well. It often seems that discretion is used to protect the powerful from any consequence. Yeah, i'd rather err on the side of everybody gets a day in court. edit Explicitly, i think laws should say what they actually mean. If jaywalking is sometimes ok, write that down somewhere so we don't have to argue about it.
    - fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
      >Explicitly, i think laws should say what they actually mean. Just to be clear, I agree with you. I was pointing out the way I think things are and probably will continue to be. >It often seems that discretion is used to protect the powerful from any consequence. It does seem to have that effect. >Yeah, i'd rather err on the side of everybody gets a day in court. That, in itself is another freebie to the wealthy and well-connected. In Texas it is almost always possible to get a traffic citation dismissed by showing up in court with an attorney that specializes in such things. Or, if you're a working stiff, who has no more days off, you can plead no contest and pay the citation with a credit card. Cost is about the same in my experience (minus the day off).
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
- forgottenpaswrd 13y ago
  "Laws should always be enforced." Like the laws that made slavery legal on US soil? Like the laws that mandate jews business ilegal, made them move to ghettos and finally to concentration camps in Germany? The laws that expropriated private property on Russia, made agriculture collapse and people nearly starve? Same thing in Cuba not long ago. Like laws that make intellectual property common ideas like software patents and make small developers servants of the big entities?

by olefoo 13y ago

jfoutz 13y ago

Laws should always be enforced. Prosecutors that are ignoring the law need to be removed. It has happened here, ask a native american. Throwing up an arbitrary, "here's something I don't like, we can make no progress till you fix it" is a tactic to avoid the issue.

fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
>Laws should always be enforced. That's rather naive. We need to fix a lot of laws before we could do that because: 1. It's not unheard of for laws to be contradictory in some circumstances, or just outright contradictory. 2. Do you really want everyone to be automatically ticketed for jaywalking? Laws were written with policemen's, and the court's discretion in mind, whether you want to believe that or not, and switching to an automatic always on enforcement mode would be oppressing in the extreme.
- jfoutz 13y ago
  I've always been uncomfortable with one set of written rules that doesn't really matter, and another secret set of unwritten rules that actually matters. If some cab driver gets a ticket from a speed camera becasue he's rushing to get a pregnant woman to the hospital, i've got no problem letting that ticket go - that should be an easy and painless process as well. It often seems that discretion is used to protect the powerful from any consequence. Yeah, i'd rather err on the side of everybody gets a day in court. edit Explicitly, i think laws should say what they actually mean. If jaywalking is sometimes ok, write that down somewhere so we don't have to argue about it.
  - fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
    >Explicitly, i think laws should say what they actually mean. Just to be clear, I agree with you. I was pointing out the way I think things are and probably will continue to be. >It often seems that discretion is used to protect the powerful from any consequence. It does seem to have that effect. >Yeah, i'd rather err on the side of everybody gets a day in court. That, in itself is another freebie to the wealthy and well-connected. In Texas it is almost always possible to get a traffic citation dismissed by showing up in court with an attorney that specializes in such things. Or, if you're a working stiff, who has no more days off, you can plead no contest and pay the citation with a credit card. Cost is about the same in my experience (minus the day off).
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
forgottenpaswrd 13y ago
"Laws should always be enforced." Like the laws that made slavery legal on US soil? Like the laws that mandate jews business ilegal, made them move to ghettos and finally to concentration camps in Germany? The laws that expropriated private property on Russia, made agriculture collapse and people nearly starve? Same thing in Cuba not long ago. Like laws that make intellectual property common ideas like software patents and make small developers servants of the big entities?