4 ms·

Apple: Macbook Air isn't suitable for simultaneous use of Xcode and external display

26 points by TimH 17y ago

ojbyrne 17y ago
Interesting. I bought a (march'09 macmini) to run dual monitors both at 1920x1200. So far it's doing the job quite well. Xcode included. Though I had to upgrade (max out) the ram.
- mattmaroon 17y ago
  Do they now have two monitor ports of some sort? My mini had only one DVI.
  - whacked_new 17y ago
    Yes: Mini DisplayPort to Dual-Link DVI http://www.apple.com/macmini/specs.html http://www.apple.com/macmini/specs.html
    - alex_c 17y ago
      I don't think this is related to the Macbook Air problem, but Apple doesn't seem to be doing so well with Mini DisplayPort and large displays: http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB571Z/A?fnode=MTY1NDA3Ng&mco=MjE0ODQ2Nw http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB571Z/A?fnode=MTY1NDA3Ng&...
      - TimH 17y ago
        This story is about my Macbook Air. In January I'd had enough of Apple and Renaissance mucking me about, so gave them another week to respond, they didn't so I filed the dispute. I also purchased a new 15 inch Macbook Pro to use in the mean time. Got it home, and it started exhibiting problems too: http://vimeo.com/2911394 http://vimeo.com/2911394 Apple said to switch the power settings to "high performance" and leave them there. Basically I think this forces it to use one of the video cards and not the other. Since then it hasn't shown the problem, but the battery doesn't last as long... Apple. Love 'em, Hate 'em.
    - mattmaroon 17y ago
      So you use the mini dvi, plus the minidisplay port?
      - ojbyrne 17y ago
        I do. Works well.
wmf 17y ago
I didn't bother reading all the legalese, but I have a feeling the external monitor has nothing to do with it.
- TimH 17y ago
  I agree, but it's what Apple used as it's legal defense.
  - nailer 17y ago
    Well the cause of the issue is poor design on Apple's behalf, but: External monitor -> greater use of video memory -> greater heat -> kernel_task pegging the CPU. See the discussions above.
timdorr 17y ago
Is it possible to a transcript from the court proceedings? I'm not familiar with NZ law at all. I'm mainly curious to see how Apple argued that plugging in an external monitor into an external monitor port and running an Apple-built program on an Apple-built computer could be argued as "inappropriate use". That's some crack lawyering!
- nikz 17y ago
  It's the "Disputes Tribunal". So it's not a proper "Court" per se - you present your case to a mediator, in person. http://www.justice.govt.nz/disputes/about/default.asp http://www.justice.govt.nz/disputes/about/default.asp for more information.
- ubernostrum 17y ago
  So, reading the order it seems that what happened was: 1. Guy is shopping for a computer for dev use. 2. Guy talks to sales consultant, explaining what he needs to do, and is told "get a MacBook Air". 3. Guy discovers MacBook Air isn't capable of handling the workload he's putting on it, it overheats and shuts down CPU cores. 4. Guy files dispute. 5. Apple says "yeah, the the MacBook Air can't handle this type of load". 6. Dispute judge says sales consultant shouldn't have recommended the MacBook Air, then. 7. Dispute judge says guy can return MacBook Air for a full refund since he was misled into believing it could handle the work he needed to do. Moral of the story: an ultra-thin laptop which explicitly trades off performance for size probably isn't the ideal machine for compiling lots of stuff while also powering a monitor the size of a breakfast table, and salespeople who tell you it is shouldn't be trusted.
  - TimH 17y ago
    Nope, not the ideal machine. a $10k Mac Pro would be much better. I was given the impression it would be adequate though, and I picked it for it's portability. If it's not adequate for the tasks it shouldn't be promoted as such. The web page for the Macbook Air says it comes with Xcode, and runs a large external display. Perhaps I should have known better, but I tried to do my research. ;-)
PStamatiou 17y ago
I had a first gen MBA for 9 months. Exact same kernel task issue - it was always hooked up to my 24-inch. Ended up going out of my way doing some undervolting to keep one of the cores from shutting down. It's not like it was actually overheating when it would shutdown one of the cores before my little hack. It was maintaining regular temperatures, even tested with a fan on it on a raised platform. Anywho, 9 months was enough for me to realize I needed more juice and I've since graduated and hack from home full-time so I don't really need mobility. My new MBP+ Intel SSD is working just fine. As for the MacBook Air.. I fell asleep with it one night and woke up to a cracked screen. After I got that fixed I took it to Apple for another issue and they returned it to me with a german keyboard. Huge mess up on their part, got it on the consumerist and such. They gave me a new one which I sold. /rant
enneff 17y ago
My boss had serious problems with his MacBook Air using Firefox on JavaScript-heavy web sites all day. They refuse to fix it / replace it under AppleCare saying that using a web browser is inappropriate use! Crazy. Obviously they can't afford to just come clean and admit the issues.
kragen 17y ago
Is there a version of whatever this is that isn't on scribd?
- icey 17y ago
  There's a download button.
  - kragen 17y ago
    It doesn't work. By "doesn't work" I mean that after turning on JavaScript for scribd.com, it tries to pop up a menu over the top of the Flash embed. But popping up anything on top of embedded Flash doesn't work in my browser (FF3 with Gnash on Linux), so I use AdBlock to block the embedded Flash. Then the download menu offers me a "PDF" option. Clicking on that ought to give me a file download; instead, it pops up a box prompting me to sign up for an account with Scribd. In short, Scribd is a privacy-invading pain in the ass. So, is there a copy of the document that isn't on Scribd?
- TimH 17y ago
  Yes, there's a version of it in your inbox. Enjoy.
  - kragen 17y ago
    Thank you! That was amusing and interesting. I'm amazed that Apple continues to have such excellent user experiences despite such abysmal quality problems.
cpr 17y ago
To understand the problem fully, you have to make a serious distinction between first and second generation Airs. I have both, and the first generation becomes completely unuseable rather quickly, external display or not, when you push it even mildly. (Youtube (non-HD) alone will do it.) The second generation is much more resistant, but if the room gets hot, with my 24" external monitor connected, I do see the kernel_task slowdown at times. (E.g., when a Time Machine backup kicks in, with 10-12 apps going, mostly in the background, and I'm doing something mildly computation-intensive in the foreground.)
jrockway 17y ago
Amusing. My eeepc can handle a 24" display and a maxed-out CPU load without any problems. All for about $2000 less than the MBA.

26 points by TimH 17y ago

Interesting. I bought a (march'09 macmini) to run dual monitors both at 1920x1200. So far it's doing the job quite well. Xcode included. Though I had to upgrade (max out) the ram.

mattmaroon 17y ago
Do they now have two monitor ports of some sort? My mini had only one DVI.
- whacked_new 17y ago
  Yes: Mini DisplayPort to Dual-Link DVI http://www.apple.com/macmini/specs.html http://www.apple.com/macmini/specs.html
  - alex_c 17y ago
    I don't think this is related to the Macbook Air problem, but Apple doesn't seem to be doing so well with Mini DisplayPort and large displays: http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB571Z/A?fnode=MTY1NDA3Ng&mco=MjE0ODQ2Nw http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB571Z/A?fnode=MTY1NDA3Ng&...
    - TimH 17y ago
      This story is about my Macbook Air. In January I'd had enough of Apple and Renaissance mucking me about, so gave them another week to respond, they didn't so I filed the dispute. I also purchased a new 15 inch Macbook Pro to use in the mean time. Got it home, and it started exhibiting problems too: http://vimeo.com/2911394 http://vimeo.com/2911394 Apple said to switch the power settings to "high performance" and leave them there. Basically I think this forces it to use one of the video cards and not the other. Since then it hasn't shown the problem, but the battery doesn't last as long... Apple. Love 'em, Hate 'em.
  - mattmaroon 17y ago
    So you use the mini dvi, plus the minidisplay port?
    - ojbyrne 17y ago
      I do. Works well.

wmf 17y ago

I didn't bother reading all the legalese, but I have a feeling the external monitor has nothing to do with it.

TimH 17y ago
I agree, but it's what Apple used as it's legal defense.
- nailer 17y ago
  Well the cause of the issue is poor design on Apple's behalf, but: External monitor -> greater use of video memory -> greater heat -> kernel_task pegging the CPU. See the discussions above.

timdorr 17y ago

Is it possible to a transcript from the court proceedings? I'm not familiar with NZ law at all. I'm mainly curious to see how Apple argued that plugging in an external monitor into an external monitor port and running an Apple-built program on an Apple-built computer could be argued as "inappropriate use". That's some crack lawyering!

nikz 17y ago
It's the "Disputes Tribunal". So it's not a proper "Court" per se - you present your case to a mediator, in person. http://www.justice.govt.nz/disputes/about/default.asp http://www.justice.govt.nz/disputes/about/default.asp for more information.
ubernostrum 17y ago
So, reading the order it seems that what happened was: 1. Guy is shopping for a computer for dev use. 2. Guy talks to sales consultant, explaining what he needs to do, and is told "get a MacBook Air". 3. Guy discovers MacBook Air isn't capable of handling the workload he's putting on it, it overheats and shuts down CPU cores. 4. Guy files dispute. 5. Apple says "yeah, the the MacBook Air can't handle this type of load". 6. Dispute judge says sales consultant shouldn't have recommended the MacBook Air, then. 7. Dispute judge says guy can return MacBook Air for a full refund since he was misled into believing it could handle the work he needed to do. Moral of the story: an ultra-thin laptop which explicitly trades off performance for size probably isn't the ideal machine for compiling lots of stuff while also powering a monitor the size of a breakfast table, and salespeople who tell you it is shouldn't be trusted.
- TimH 17y ago
  Nope, not the ideal machine. a $10k Mac Pro would be much better. I was given the impression it would be adequate though, and I picked it for it's portability. If it's not adequate for the tasks it shouldn't be promoted as such. The web page for the Macbook Air says it comes with Xcode, and runs a large external display. Perhaps I should have known better, but I tried to do my research. ;-)

PStamatiou 17y ago

I had a first gen MBA for 9 months. Exact same kernel task issue - it was always hooked up to my 24-inch. Ended up going out of my way doing some undervolting to keep one of the cores from shutting down. It's not like it was actually overheating when it would shutdown one of the cores before my little hack. It was maintaining regular temperatures, even tested with a fan on it on a raised platform. Anywho, 9 months was enough for me to realize I needed more juice and I've since graduated and hack from home full-time so I don't really need mobility. My new MBP+ Intel SSD is working just fine. As for the MacBook Air.. I fell asleep with it one night and woke up to a cracked screen. After I got that fixed I took it to Apple for another issue and they returned it to me with a german keyboard. Huge mess up on their part, got it on the consumerist and such. They gave me a new one which I sold. /rant

enneff 17y ago

My boss had serious problems with his MacBook Air using Firefox on JavaScript-heavy web sites all day. They refuse to fix it / replace it under AppleCare saying that using a web browser is inappropriate use! Crazy. Obviously they can't afford to just come clean and admit the issues.

kragen 17y ago

Is there a version of whatever this is that isn't on scribd?

icey 17y ago
There's a download button.
- kragen 17y ago
  It doesn't work. By "doesn't work" I mean that after turning on JavaScript for scribd.com, it tries to pop up a menu over the top of the Flash embed. But popping up anything on top of embedded Flash doesn't work in my browser (FF3 with Gnash on Linux), so I use AdBlock to block the embedded Flash. Then the download menu offers me a "PDF" option. Clicking on that ought to give me a file download; instead, it pops up a box prompting me to sign up for an account with Scribd. In short, Scribd is a privacy-invading pain in the ass. So, is there a copy of the document that isn't on Scribd?
TimH 17y ago
Yes, there's a version of it in your inbox. Enjoy.
- kragen 17y ago
  Thank you! That was amusing and interesting. I'm amazed that Apple continues to have such excellent user experiences despite such abysmal quality problems.

cpr 17y ago

To understand the problem fully, you have to make a serious distinction between first and second generation Airs. I have both, and the first generation becomes completely unuseable rather quickly, external display or not, when you push it even mildly. (Youtube (non-HD) alone will do it.) The second generation is much more resistant, but if the room gets hot, with my 24" external monitor connected, I do see the kernel_task slowdown at times. (E.g., when a Time Machine backup kicks in, with 10-12 apps going, mostly in the background, and I'm doing something mildly computation-intensive in the foreground.)

jrockway 17y ago

Amusing. My eeepc can handle a 24" display and a maxed-out CPU load without any problems. All for about $2000 less than the MBA.