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One thing this shows is just how powerful Facebook could become/already is. When they connect the dots online and offline of billion user's buying information a

by HunterV 13y ago

One thing this shows is just how powerful Facebook could become/already is. When they connect the dots online and offline of billion user's buying information and habits they essentially can electronically understand who you are better than you do, and can predict what you'll do even better. Just food for thought.

krapp 13y ago
Oh I'm sure governments around the world have been thinking quite hard about that.
- rhizome 13y ago
  Which is why online privacy protection laws are so important for legislatures to pass.
  - sdoering 13y ago
    And which is by the way exactly the negative incentive for governments to pass this sort of legislation, as they love to get their hands on this kind of data via legal (or pseudo-legal) means.
sillysaurus 13y ago
When Facebook connects the dots online and offline of billion users' buying information and habits, they essentially can electronically understand who you are better than you do, and can predict what you'll do even better. Why are people disturbed by this?
- _seininn 13y ago
  If a person is well understood and their actions can be predicted, they can be manipulated. The real question is: why aren't you?
  - sillysaurus 13y ago
    If I'm manipulated into buying something that I genuinely want, then I'd be happier for it. It's not as if seeing an ad for a $100 256GB SSD would make me skip looking up the reviews for it and evaluating its performance before I buy it. It's mystifying to me why people are bothered by targeted ads. If ads become relevant to me, that'd be a wonderful thing. I'm not saying I'm right -- I'm saying I wish someone would explain why targeted advertising is evil.
    - krapp 13y ago
      People aren't bothered by the targeted ads. They're bothered by what else can be done with that vast, accumulated store of information and the network that's designed for surveillance, tracking and predicting behavior. For a lot of people, facebook is their identity. It's the way others see them and communicate with them, and their account holds a great deal of personal information which could be used to impersonate, blackmail or profile them.
    - SoftwareMaven 13y ago
      It is evil because: 1. I get no say in what information they store and use. If somebody else used my computer, that information is associated with me. 2. The more information companies have about me, the easier it is for the government to gather information without due process. 3. What is gathered about me can be stolen by somebody else. I agree that, in theory, well targeted ads are far superior to the dating ads I get on Facebook, but with zero control, transparency or accountability, I'm very uncomfortable with the amount if info they are trying to gather from me.
    - _seininn 13y ago
      > If I'm manipulated into buying something that I genuinely want, then I'd be happier for it. But do you genuinely want it? or were you _influinced_ into wanting it? It's the same principle that makes fast food advertisements so profitable for the food industry. The ads are already targeted (most people like to eat tasty food). Furthermore, if you're truly indifferent with being influenced like this, to what extent will the "influencing" remain acceptable to you? where would you draw the line?
- keithpeter 13y ago
  Predictions based on partial data could be problematic. One example: I pay for fresh food and staples in cash, and buy 'grocery' items on a card. A data collection system that tracked only card purchases would give the impression of a very unhealthy diet.
  - andyking 13y ago
    This is how it is for me, too. I buy fresh vegetables, fresh meat, milk, eggs, bread at a local farm shop and pay cash. I buy other things like pizza, coffee, processed foods at a supermarket and pay with card - and also scan my loyalty card. I regularly get offers from the supermarket for money off yet more unhealthy food - they are blissfully unaware that I eat quite well in reality!
- belorn 13y ago
  Why are people disturbed by this? Simply put, because the corner stones of democratic societies are built on the assumption that peoples lives are private. Take voting without privacy. Can voting work if everyone is fully known by the state? If the people in office known where the oppositions voters are, new actions become available. If you can redirect road work, sporting events, sales, and so on, how much work would it really be to get the oppositions voters to spend the day doing something other then voting on the election day? Knowing who votes for who allows those already in power an unfair and destructive advantage over those not yet elected. Take politics in general if we have no privacy. What happens to politics if every to-be political rival is known to those threatened? If we can identify which kids are going to be political active, those could be discourage. Alternative, they could be influenced, drag into the party line before reaching a independent view. Or lets leave politics and go to justice. Can you have a working judge and jury system if everything about their life can be fully known? If one party know that a jury members spouse is cheating, they can rephrase their statements in form of betraying. If someone know about economical troubles, one can redress statements as being "down on the luck". If the judge dreams about leaving the bench and begin some childhood dream project, one could phrase statements in favor of startups. Knowing the dreams and thoughts of people, and you get boundless possibilities to influence others.

by HunterV 13y ago

krapp 13y ago

Oh I'm sure governments around the world have been thinking quite hard about that.

rhizome 13y ago
Which is why online privacy protection laws are so important for legislatures to pass.
- sdoering 13y ago
  And which is by the way exactly the negative incentive for governments to pass this sort of legislation, as they love to get their hands on this kind of data via legal (or pseudo-legal) means.

sillysaurus 13y ago

When Facebook connects the dots online and offline of billion users' buying information and habits, they essentially can electronically understand who you are better than you do, and can predict what you'll do even better. Why are people disturbed by this?

_seininn 13y ago
If a person is well understood and their actions can be predicted, they can be manipulated. The real question is: why aren't you?
- sillysaurus 13y ago
  If I'm manipulated into buying something that I genuinely want, then I'd be happier for it. It's not as if seeing an ad for a $100 256GB SSD would make me skip looking up the reviews for it and evaluating its performance before I buy it. It's mystifying to me why people are bothered by targeted ads. If ads become relevant to me, that'd be a wonderful thing. I'm not saying I'm right -- I'm saying I wish someone would explain why targeted advertising is evil.
  - krapp 13y ago
    People aren't bothered by the targeted ads. They're bothered by what else can be done with that vast, accumulated store of information and the network that's designed for surveillance, tracking and predicting behavior. For a lot of people, facebook is their identity. It's the way others see them and communicate with them, and their account holds a great deal of personal information which could be used to impersonate, blackmail or profile them.
  - SoftwareMaven 13y ago
    It is evil because: 1. I get no say in what information they store and use. If somebody else used my computer, that information is associated with me. 2. The more information companies have about me, the easier it is for the government to gather information without due process. 3. What is gathered about me can be stolen by somebody else. I agree that, in theory, well targeted ads are far superior to the dating ads I get on Facebook, but with zero control, transparency or accountability, I'm very uncomfortable with the amount if info they are trying to gather from me.
  - _seininn 13y ago
    > If I'm manipulated into buying something that I genuinely want, then I'd be happier for it. But do you genuinely want it? or were you _influinced_ into wanting it? It's the same principle that makes fast food advertisements so profitable for the food industry. The ads are already targeted (most people like to eat tasty food). Furthermore, if you're truly indifferent with being influenced like this, to what extent will the "influencing" remain acceptable to you? where would you draw the line?
keithpeter 13y ago
Predictions based on partial data could be problematic. One example: I pay for fresh food and staples in cash, and buy 'grocery' items on a card. A data collection system that tracked only card purchases would give the impression of a very unhealthy diet.
- andyking 13y ago
  This is how it is for me, too. I buy fresh vegetables, fresh meat, milk, eggs, bread at a local farm shop and pay cash. I buy other things like pizza, coffee, processed foods at a supermarket and pay with card - and also scan my loyalty card. I regularly get offers from the supermarket for money off yet more unhealthy food - they are blissfully unaware that I eat quite well in reality!
belorn 13y ago
Why are people disturbed by this? Simply put, because the corner stones of democratic societies are built on the assumption that peoples lives are private. Take voting without privacy. Can voting work if everyone is fully known by the state? If the people in office known where the oppositions voters are, new actions become available. If you can redirect road work, sporting events, sales, and so on, how much work would it really be to get the oppositions voters to spend the day doing something other then voting on the election day? Knowing who votes for who allows those already in power an unfair and destructive advantage over those not yet elected. Take politics in general if we have no privacy. What happens to politics if every to-be political rival is known to those threatened? If we can identify which kids are going to be political active, those could be discourage. Alternative, they could be influenced, drag into the party line before reaching a independent view. Or lets leave politics and go to justice. Can you have a working judge and jury system if everything about their life can be fully known? If one party know that a jury members spouse is cheating, they can rephrase their statements in form of betraying. If someone know about economical troubles, one can redress statements as being "down on the luck". If the judge dreams about leaving the bench and begin some childhood dream project, one could phrase statements in favor of startups. Knowing the dreams and thoughts of people, and you get boundless possibilities to influence others.