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"If you knife a person, it is a crime regardless of who the victim is unless it was in self defense." In response, I'll just quote David Neiwert again (for sou
by gnosis 14y ago
"If you knife a person, it is a crime regardless of who the victim is unless it was in self defense."
In response, I'll just quote David Neiwert again (for sources, see the links in my previous post above):
Throughout the text, they consistently describe hate crimes laws as
being designed to create special "protected groups," a focus derived
solely from viewing the special-interest advocacy that often spurred
these laws' passage. Moreover, they consistently describe the laws as
protecting only these selected groups and not everyone in society
equally.
This is simply a false characterization of the laws themselves. None
of these laws specify the race or ethnicity or religion of the victims
-- rather, they are focused solely on the motivations of the
perpetrator. A person need not be actually gay to be the victim of a
gay-bashing hate crime; he need only have been perceived as gay by
someone who specifically set out to assault homosexuals. This is only
logical, since the terroristic motivation of the assault is present in
either case.
Moreover, the laws protect everyone equally. Majority whites are
victims of bias crimes too, and every year there are over a thousand
prosecutions for such cases. (Indeed, the definitive Supreme Court
case, Wisconsin v. Mitchell, involved a black man accused of fomenting
a hate crime against a couple of white teens.) Check the FBI
statistics for yourself.
Hate-crimes laws generally have three chief categories of bias
motivation: racial, ethnic and religious. Some statutes include sexual
orientation, others include gender bias. It's important to keep in
mind that everyone has a race, an ethnicity, a religion (or even lack
thereof). Everyone has a sexual orientation and a gender. This is what
makes the laws generally universal and fully in tune with the
equal-protection clause.
...
These are the most serious of the points that Jeralyn raises, and
there are two components of it that need addressing. ...
First is the suggestion that current laws against the parallel crimes
are adequate to the task and that hate-crimes laws intrude
unnecessarily on this ground. Indeed, this identical argument was
raised in the 1920s and '30s by opponents of the anti-lynching
legislation that was the NAACP's raison d'etre during its early years.
Nowadays, it is proffered by such hate-crimes-law opponents as the
Traditional Values Coalition and the Family Forum (who fear new laws
that include sexual orientation among the categories of bias). A
clearly specious version of it is the common Republican meme, "All
crimes are hate crimes" -- which, fortunately, does not appear in
Jeralyn's arguments, but which can be heard frequently from the likes
of George W. Bush and Orrin Hatch.
It should go without saying that in fact not all crimes are alike in
nature. Indeed, not even all homicides are alike; they range from
second-degree manslaughter to first-degree murder. The difference
among them largely stems from the circumstances of the act and from
the perpetrator's mens rea. Intent and motive can be the difference
between a five-year sentence and the electric chair.
Are hate crimes truly different from their parallel crimes?
Quantifiably and qualitatively, the answer is yes.
The first and most clear aspect of this difference lies in the breadth
of the crimes' effects. Hate crimes attack not only the immediate
victim, but the target community -- Jews, blacks, gays -- to which the
victim belongs. Their purpose today, just as it was in the lynching
era, is to terrorize and politically oppress the target community.
They resemble anti-terrorism laws in this respect as well. As Matt
Welch puts it in the post that started this debate:
So, in effect, you add more punishment to those who perpetrate hate
crimes because the crime targets and effects more than the immediate
victim. It creates a culture of fear to which society must respond.
But this is only one aspect of how different hate crimes are from
their parallel crimes. There are several more, and they are
substantial. Frederick Lawrence, associate dean of the Boston
University Law School, describes these differences in detail in his
landmark text, Punishing Hate: Bias Crimes Under American Law
(1999, Harvard University Press), which is a truly definitive text on
hate-crimes laws (and from which I openly admit I draw many of my
arguments, partly because I've explored these issues thoroughly
through other avenues -- at one time I too was skeptical of
hate-crimes laws' efficacy -- and found that Lawrence was correct in
most respects, indeed in nearly every detail):
Bias crimes are far more likely to be violent than are other crimes.
This is true on two levels. In the first place, crimes committed
with bias motivation are dramatically more likely to involve
physical assaults than do crimes generally, One study conducted in
Boston found that approximately half of all bias crimes reported to
the police involved assaults. This is far above the average for
crimes generally, where we find that only 7 percent of all crimes
reported to the police involve assaults. Secondly, bias-motivated
crimes are far more likely than other assaults to involve serious
physical injury to the victim. The Boston study, for example, found
that nearly 75 percent of the victims of bias-motivated assaults
suffered physical injury, whereas the national average for assaults
generally is closer to 30 percent. …
Bias crimes are may also be distinguished from parallel crimes on
the basis of their particular emotional and psychological impact on
the victim. The victim of a bias crime is not attacked for a random
reason -- as the person injured during a shooting spree in a public
place -- nor is he attacked for an impersonal reason, as is the
victim of a mugging for money. He is attacked for a specific,
personal reason: his race [or religion, or sexual preference].
Moreover, the bias crime victim cannot reasonably minimize the risk
of future attacks because he is unable to change the characteristics
that made him a victim.
A bias crime thus attacks the victim not only physically but at the
very core of his identity. It is an attack from which there is no
escape. It is one thing to avoid the park at night because it is not
safe. It is quite another to avoid certain neighborhoods because of
one's race. This heightened sense of vulnerability caused by bias
crimes is beyond that normally found in crime victims. Bias-crime
victims have been compared to rape victims in that the physical harm
associated with the crime, however great, is less significant than
the powerful accompanying sense of violation. The victims of bias
crimes thus tend to experience psychological symptoms such as
depression or withdrawal, as well as anxiety, feelings of
helplessness, and a profound sense of isolation. …
… Bias crimes cause an even broader injury to the general community.
Such crimes violate not only society's general concern for the
security of its members and their property but also the shared value
of equality among its citizens and racial and religious harmony in a
heterogeneous society. A bias crime is therefore a profound
violation of the egalitarian ideal and the anti-discrimination
principle that have become fundamental not only to the American
legal system but to American culture as well.
Not only are bias crimes substantially different in nature from their
parallel crimes, there is no question that they cause substantially
greater harm, so a harsher punishment is fully warranted.
- protomyth 14y agoSo, if I were to believe your quote, a brother or sister who attacks me is more psychology damaging then a random stranger, so they should get a higher penalty. A spouse or parent should really get the extra time. Why aren't those listed? Nope, actions are what we can measure and put on the wall. Everything else is opinion.
- gnosis 14y agoSo I suppose you believe that a somone who killed another person unintentionally and by accident should be punished just the same as someone who killed another person deliberately and with a lot of premeditation. After all, the only thing that differentiates the two cases is the intent of the perpetrator. And we can't measure intent, can we? Or can we?
- protomyth 14y agoNo. Intent is part of the law and action of a crime. I specifically added the self-defense part to my first post to illustrate that. Belief of the person is only important as view from the action and circumstances of the crime (eg. did this person knife the person because they were being attacked). It is generically applied to all people regardless of their own attributes (race, creed, etc.). The law is blind and we are all equal. Intent in the commission of a crime is a separate idea and has nothing to do with "hate crimes".
- gnosis 14y agoIntent, or (to use the legal term) mens rea, has everything to do with hate crimes. To quote David Neiwert yet again: Lawrence points to the distinction between bias crimes and their underlying parallel crimes, which in effect create two tiers of evidence for any kind of hate-crime prosecution to succeed. At both tiers, the criminal's mens rea is an essential component. In the first tier of a crime -- say, an assault -- the intent to commit the crime still must be established; at the second tier, both the first-level intent and the second-tier bias motivation must be proven. For a bias-crime prosecution to succeed, it must establish both tiers of mens rea. Thus someone who merely partakes of hate speech, with no intent to intimidate, is guiltless of a hate crime, because the first tier of motivation is absent, and thus no free-speech rights have been infringed upon. But because menacing and intimidation, all of which in fact take the form of words alone, are punishable crimes in every state, anyone using hate speech to terrorize his neighbors has partaken of a bias crime. Consider, for instance, the example of cross burning. A white supremacist who burns a cross at a private rally is undoubtedly voicing a kind of racial hate, but there has been no attempt to intimidate or menace anyone, and no crime has been committed. Likewise, someone who, say, dumped garbage on a black neighbor's lawn would only be guilty of harassment or intimidation, not a bias crime (unless, of course, evidence existed he had done so because of the neighbor's race). But someone who burns a cross on his neighbor's lawn has clearly committed a hate crime, because he has both the intent to intimidate and racial bias as his motivation. In this sense, hate-crime laws avoid running afoul of the First Amendment in the same fashion as any other of the myriad sentence-enhancement laws, including anti-terrorism statutes, because they all reflect the differences in mens rea among acts that are already established crimes. More to the point, there are limits to free-speech rights; threats and intimidation are already illegal, as are incitement to riot, incitement to murder, and other kinds of speech. And indeed the Supreme Court recently has moved in this direction in upholding the constitutionality of hate-crime laws. The recent cross-burning case, Virginia v. Black, produced a March 2003 ruling (authored by Sandra Day O'Connor) that followed this logic closely. The state of Virginia, the Court said, was well within its rights to outlaw cross-burnings meant to intimidate: The protections the First Amendment affords speech and expressive conduct are not absolute. This Court has long recognized that the government may regulate certain categories of expression consistent with the Constitution. … For example, the First Amendment permits a State to ban "true threats," … which encompass those statements where the speaker means to communicate a serious expression of an intent to commit an act of unlawful violence to a particular individual or group of individuals. … The speaker need not actually intend to carry out the threat. Rather, a prohibition on true threats protects individuals from the fear of violence and the disruption that fear engenders, as well as from the possibility that the threatened violence will occur. … Intimidation in the constitutionally proscribable sense of the word is a type of true threat, where a speaker directs a threat to a person or group of persons with the intent of placing the victim in fear of bodily harm or death.