3 ms·

It will be fascinating to see how this discussion out in a mainly American forum. In very broad terms, the attitude that the Italians seem to have to Knox is si

It will be fascinating to see how this discussion out in a mainly American forum. In very broad terms, the attitude that the Italians seem to have to Knox is similar to the attitude that the Americans had to Woodward, and very much vice versa.

stephencanon 13y ago
For anyone who doesn't know what "Woodward" refers to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louise_Woodward_case http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louise_Woodward_case
- mikeash 13y ago
  Stuff like this terrifies me: "In the days following the verdict it emerged that the jury had been split about the murder charge, but those who had favoured an acquittal were persuaded to accept a conviction." I just don't understand it. How can a person serving on a jury, with another person's life in their hands, be "persuaded to accept a conviction" when they don't actually believe the defendant is guilty?
  - Evbn 13y ago
    Watch 12 Angry Men backwards.
    - tunesmith 13y ago
      That's an awesome comment. What a disturbing movie that would be.
    - gwern 13y ago
      Funny you bring it up, because from a Bayesian perspective, the main character makes some pretty specious arguments and the final choice to not convict is probably wrong; see http://rationallyspeaking.blogspot.com/2012/11/odds-again-bayes-made-usable.html http://rationallyspeaking.blogspot.com/2012/11/odds-again-ba... and the excerpts from http://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2472&context=faculty_scholarship http://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=... ("Was He Guilty as Charged? An alternative narrative based on the circumstantial evidence from '12 Angry Men'", Vidmar et al) in http://studiolo.cortediurbino.org/how-useful-is-bayesianism/ http://studiolo.cortediurbino.org/how-useful-is-bayesianism/
  - eli 13y ago
    Have you ever sat on a jury? Unless all 12 people start in unanimous agreement, then some people are probably going to have to be persuaded to change their mind. This is intentionally part of the process; it's how the system is supposed to work.
    - mikeash 13y ago
      Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but the way it's worded makes me think that they never changed their mind about the innocence of the defendant, but were simply persuaded to vote against what they believed to be true. I'm perfectly fine with someone starting out thinking the defendant is innocent and then later changing their minds to thinking the defendant is guilty. I'm very much against anyone thinking the defendant is innocent but voting to convict due to peer pressure or whatever.

stephencanon 13y ago

For anyone who doesn't know what "Woodward" refers to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louise_Woodward_case http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louise_Woodward_case

mikeash 13y ago
Stuff like this terrifies me: "In the days following the verdict it emerged that the jury had been split about the murder charge, but those who had favoured an acquittal were persuaded to accept a conviction." I just don't understand it. How can a person serving on a jury, with another person's life in their hands, be "persuaded to accept a conviction" when they don't actually believe the defendant is guilty?
- Evbn 13y ago
  Watch 12 Angry Men backwards.
  - tunesmith 13y ago
    That's an awesome comment. What a disturbing movie that would be.
  - gwern 13y ago
    Funny you bring it up, because from a Bayesian perspective, the main character makes some pretty specious arguments and the final choice to not convict is probably wrong; see http://rationallyspeaking.blogspot.com/2012/11/odds-again-bayes-made-usable.html http://rationallyspeaking.blogspot.com/2012/11/odds-again-ba... and the excerpts from http://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2472&context=faculty_scholarship http://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=... ("Was He Guilty as Charged? An alternative narrative based on the circumstantial evidence from '12 Angry Men'", Vidmar et al) in http://studiolo.cortediurbino.org/how-useful-is-bayesianism/ http://studiolo.cortediurbino.org/how-useful-is-bayesianism/
- eli 13y ago
  Have you ever sat on a jury? Unless all 12 people start in unanimous agreement, then some people are probably going to have to be persuaded to change their mind. This is intentionally part of the process; it's how the system is supposed to work.
  - mikeash 13y ago
    Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but the way it's worded makes me think that they never changed their mind about the innocence of the defendant, but were simply persuaded to vote against what they believed to be true. I'm perfectly fine with someone starting out thinking the defendant is innocent and then later changing their minds to thinking the defendant is guilty. I'm very much against anyone thinking the defendant is innocent but voting to convict due to peer pressure or whatever.