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Do you have any evidence that e-cigarettes harm people around their users? The few studies I've seen seem very positive. Not that I mind if their use indoors i

Do you have any evidence that e-cigarettes harm people around their users? The few studies I've seen seem very positive. Not that I mind if their use indoors is banned… but I find this claim interesting because it contradicts the (admittedly little) evidence I've seen.

hristov 13y ago
You can look at the wikipedia article for nicotine. Apparently it promotes cancer.
- Symmetry 13y ago
  When talking about the ability of substances to cause cancer it's always important to talk quantitatively, because there are a huge number of things that cause cancer and most have effects too subtle to worry about. In the case of nicotine it may cause cancer in humans at the levels smokers experience, but even so it's way less carcinogenic than alcohol, for example. Smoke of all sorts, on the other hand, is horribly carcinogenic and you can make a good argument for banning wood-burning stoves in cities.
- LnxPrgr3 13y ago
  As they say, the dose makes the poison. So far, I don't see any evidence that exhaled e-cigarette vapor contains more than a trivial amount of nicotine. That nicotine could be a hazard for the user, but as far as I can tell you'd have a hell of a time getting a significant dose from passive vaping. If you're looking to avoid even trace amounts of nicotine, staying away from smokers isn't enough. You should probably avoid eating anything in the nightshade family (e.g. eggplant, tomatoes, potatoes, and peppers). It's worth noting these foods contain other toxic alkaloids in low doses too—other parts of the plants with higher concentrations are inedible. The relevant question here is this: is exhaled vapor from nearby e-cigarette users a significant health risk? How does it compare to other environmental hazards?
UnoriginalGuy 13y ago
Most of the existing evidence is produced by the e-cig industry. Hardly worth the paper it is written on. As another poster said, we know that nicotine is harmful within its own right, so if e-cigs are throwing it out into the air in unknown quantities that is worrying.
- praxeologist 13y ago
  "Most of the existing evidence is produced by the e-cig industry. Hardly worth the paper it is written on." http://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com/2013/03/new-study-of-electronic-cigarette-vapor.html http://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com/2013/03/new-study-of-ele... >> Note also that this is an independent study which was not funded by any electronic cigarette company. The two funding sources were the Ministry of Science and Higher Education of Poland and the National Institutes of Health. This adds objectivity and credibility to the work. The results of this study are close to the evidence from studies funded by ecig companies, making those all the more credible too.
  - hristov 13y ago
    Your study only shows that ecigs are safer than cigarettes. That is probably true and nobody here is disputing that. However, this is not sufficient reason to exempt ecigs from smoking bans. Smoking bans are about protecting the health of non-smokers. And non-smokers do not want the harmful effects of ecigs even if those effects are significantly less than those of cigarettes.
    - praxeologist 13y ago
      You have absolutely zero evidence that what ecigs put out is harmful to people nearby. If I am in the same room as someone with a severe nut allergy and I am sitting there cracking open peanuts like mad, I could hurt someone else. Should we ban peanuts? Ecigs aren't even as bad as peanuts because what is in them will never cause some sort of severe, instant reaction like to a person with nut allergies. We know what is in this stuff. We can go far on the side of erring on caution and extrapolate from how much nicotine is in the liquid and how much people run through in a day, how much nicotine is being put into the air. I have studied this subject extensively. I know the research on how much nicotine gets absorbed into the lungs versus now much escapes. I know how much air a person cycles through breathing in an hour. I know that others are not "being drugged" by nicotine. You are just a dishonest fearmonger. The few dangerous things that have been found in ecigs (stuff like acetaldehyde and formaldehyde) can be compared to the cancer risks from the other components of tobacco smoke as well as other carcinogens and chemicals which pose a cardiovascular risk. See J Fowles and E Dybing. Application of toxicological risk assessment principles to the chemical constituents of cigarette smoke. Tob. Control, Dec 2003; 12: 424 - 430. By far the worst cancer causer in tobacco smoke is 1,3-butadiene. This will be exhaled in smoke and also given off in "sidestream smoke" (the cigarette sits there burning). There is no smoke at all with ecigs and no sidestream vapor, because the vapor is triggered by the user and goes only into their lungs first. 1,3-butadiene is given off from things like having a campfire or BBQ-ing. Should we ban campfires and BBQs? What people are being exposed to is worse than ecigs.

hristov 13y ago

You can look at the wikipedia article for nicotine. Apparently it promotes cancer.

Symmetry 13y ago
When talking about the ability of substances to cause cancer it's always important to talk quantitatively, because there are a huge number of things that cause cancer and most have effects too subtle to worry about. In the case of nicotine it may cause cancer in humans at the levels smokers experience, but even so it's way less carcinogenic than alcohol, for example. Smoke of all sorts, on the other hand, is horribly carcinogenic and you can make a good argument for banning wood-burning stoves in cities.
LnxPrgr3 13y ago
As they say, the dose makes the poison. So far, I don't see any evidence that exhaled e-cigarette vapor contains more than a trivial amount of nicotine. That nicotine could be a hazard for the user, but as far as I can tell you'd have a hell of a time getting a significant dose from passive vaping. If you're looking to avoid even trace amounts of nicotine, staying away from smokers isn't enough. You should probably avoid eating anything in the nightshade family (e.g. eggplant, tomatoes, potatoes, and peppers). It's worth noting these foods contain other toxic alkaloids in low doses too—other parts of the plants with higher concentrations are inedible. The relevant question here is this: is exhaled vapor from nearby e-cigarette users a significant health risk? How does it compare to other environmental hazards?

UnoriginalGuy 13y ago

Most of the existing evidence is produced by the e-cig industry. Hardly worth the paper it is written on. As another poster said, we know that nicotine is harmful within its own right, so if e-cigs are throwing it out into the air in unknown quantities that is worrying.

praxeologist 13y ago
"Most of the existing evidence is produced by the e-cig industry. Hardly worth the paper it is written on." http://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com/2013/03/new-study-of-electronic-cigarette-vapor.html http://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com/2013/03/new-study-of-ele... >> Note also that this is an independent study which was not funded by any electronic cigarette company. The two funding sources were the Ministry of Science and Higher Education of Poland and the National Institutes of Health. This adds objectivity and credibility to the work. The results of this study are close to the evidence from studies funded by ecig companies, making those all the more credible too.
- hristov 13y ago
  Your study only shows that ecigs are safer than cigarettes. That is probably true and nobody here is disputing that. However, this is not sufficient reason to exempt ecigs from smoking bans. Smoking bans are about protecting the health of non-smokers. And non-smokers do not want the harmful effects of ecigs even if those effects are significantly less than those of cigarettes.
  - praxeologist 13y ago
    You have absolutely zero evidence that what ecigs put out is harmful to people nearby. If I am in the same room as someone with a severe nut allergy and I am sitting there cracking open peanuts like mad, I could hurt someone else. Should we ban peanuts? Ecigs aren't even as bad as peanuts because what is in them will never cause some sort of severe, instant reaction like to a person with nut allergies. We know what is in this stuff. We can go far on the side of erring on caution and extrapolate from how much nicotine is in the liquid and how much people run through in a day, how much nicotine is being put into the air. I have studied this subject extensively. I know the research on how much nicotine gets absorbed into the lungs versus now much escapes. I know how much air a person cycles through breathing in an hour. I know that others are not "being drugged" by nicotine. You are just a dishonest fearmonger. The few dangerous things that have been found in ecigs (stuff like acetaldehyde and formaldehyde) can be compared to the cancer risks from the other components of tobacco smoke as well as other carcinogens and chemicals which pose a cardiovascular risk. See J Fowles and E Dybing. Application of toxicological risk assessment principles to the chemical constituents of cigarette smoke. Tob. Control, Dec 2003; 12: 424 - 430. By far the worst cancer causer in tobacco smoke is 1,3-butadiene. This will be exhaled in smoke and also given off in "sidestream smoke" (the cigarette sits there burning). There is no smoke at all with ecigs and no sidestream vapor, because the vapor is triggered by the user and goes only into their lungs first. 1,3-butadiene is given off from things like having a campfire or BBQ-ing. Should we ban campfires and BBQs? What people are being exposed to is worse than ecigs.