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How To Power The Entire Country With Renewable Energy

28 points by ph0rque 18y ago

tptacek 18y ago
And so if you could just plug your TV into the sun, the wind, or a compost heap, all our problems would be solved.
- ph0rque 18y ago
  ... as opposed to now, when you have to plug it into a lump of coal, some radioactive stuff, or some natural gas http://www.theoildrum.com/files/US%20Electric%20Generation%20by%20Source.png http://www.theoildrum.com/files/US%20Electric%20Generation%2... ?
  - tptacek 18y ago
    Actually, I plug my TV into the wall. Which is my point. That we get a lot of sun, wind, and poop is kind of besides the point, isn't it?
    - ph0rque 18y ago
      Not sure I'm following you... the article talks about how the US can switch to wind and solar energy (as well as biofuel for the lulls on non-windy, cloudy days) and meet 100% of our energy demands that way. So yes, the author is advocating solving our problems with sun and wind instead of coal, natural gas, and radioactive material. If done right, this will be rather transparent to you, the end user[1], it will reduce our dependence on non-renewable fuels, and create jobs in the process. You will still be able to plug in your TV to the wall and have it work. 1. Except perhaps for the price...
      - RobertL 18y ago
        The Naib is a babbling idiot. What you and he need to do is "start" local and grow from there. This means installing wind and solar generators at your own homes and cutting yourselves off from the power grid. I think that living like this for a few days and paying the bills you would be paying to live like that is probably the only thing that will finally convince you that the ideas presented here are total nonsense.
pmjordan 18y ago
Love the maps. Where is the author getting them from? Are they available for other parts of the world? And a little more on topic: when travelling through the south of Germany, you'll find about 50% of larger buildings in the countryside have solar panels on the roof. With the right incentives, you can spread this sort of thing pretty quickly. (as far as I know, they get to feed unused electricity back into the grid at the same price at which they draw from the grid; I suspect the initial investment might be subsidised, too) Cross the border to Austria and you see nothing of the sort.
- pasbesoin 18y ago
  Have a look at the legends on the map images. E.g. http://www.nrel.gov/gis/il_csp.html http://www.nrel.gov/gis/il_csp.html isn't found anymore, but this appears to be a current index for items from the same source http://www.nrel.gov/gis/maps.html http://www.nrel.gov/gis/maps.html NREL == National Renewable Energy Laboratory "The National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL) is the nation's primary laboratory for renewable energy and energy efficiency research and development (R&D). "NREL's mission and strategy are focused on advancing the U.S. Department of Energy's and our nation's energy goals. The laboratory's scientists and researchers support critical market objectives to accelerate research from scientific innovations to market-viable alternative energy solutions..."
ajdecon 18y ago
It would certainly be nice to be able to hit the 10-year goal, but I think it's going to take longer than that. The thing I wonder about is how hard it will be to scale up the manufacturing of the required components of such a system: PV cells, wind turbines, etc. I can't find any good numbers right now, but iirc a lot of the factories and material suppliers are oversubscribed as it is, with multiple-year waiting lists for parts like high-quality solar panels. Building more factories is of course possible, but will take a fair amount of time considering the processes necessary to produce components of the required quality.
- peregrine 18y ago
  I know of at least one factory going up in Wisconsin. And the possibility of another. I mean just in not so windy Wisconsin we've got a couple places with fields covered in these things. This exact time last year there were none. I don't know the power they put out but I know they exist.
- dabeeeenster 18y ago
  The problem is that solar panels generally contain fairly rare elements. If everyone in the Western World decided overnight to put solar panels on their roofs, we'd run out of those elements very quickly. It simply isn't possible with the current technology AFAIK. Wind Turbines are a different matter; they are relative simple machines from a commodities point of view.
  - dabeeeenster 18y ago
    Having said that Nano Solar are quite interesting - not sure if they are reliant on obscure materials but they are a fascinating company - huge levels of investment in them too... http://www.nanosolar.com/ http://www.nanosolar.com/
  - granular 18y ago
    > solar panels generally contain fairly rare elements I'm pretty sure the standard ones are just silicon (sand) plus trace amounts of commonly-available dopants. Nothing exotic. :) The problem of using only renewable energy sources is not a technical one.
meterplech 18y ago
the author speaks of this like if we dont send the money to the middle east we can immediately use it on renewable resources. but, economically there is a reason for the money to be going there, and that's because it is cheaper to use oil. until research can make renewable fuel cheaper (or oil runs out), it will not be economically viable regardless of whether or not the resources and tech exists.
- pgebhard 18y ago
  Well, isn't there also the "greenhouse gas" factor when using oil. By using wind and solar power, that factor disappears.
- dabeeeenster 18y ago
  It's not a case of when oil runs out, but when it starts running out. As that happens the price goes up, and things like cars and aeroplanes get more expensive to run. It's currently a lot cheaper to run an electric car from the domestic electricty supply than it is filling it with petrol, and has been for some time.
  - kingnothing 18y ago
    What country are you in?
jws 18y ago
It looks like Illinois bribed someone to inflate their wind numbers. (For those outside the US, it is the suspiciously yellow state below the flacid red lake and is well known for corruption in government.) Interesting rule of thumb: The solar power delivered to a typical house's roof is about equal to the electrical demands of that house even at 20% or so conversion efficiency. (Rule breaks in the dark and cold of winter if you try to heat with it.)
- ph0rque 18y ago
  Interesting rule of thumb: The solar power delivered to a typical house's roof is about equal to the electrical demands of that house even at 20% or so conversion efficiency. (Rule breaks in the dark and cold of winter if you try to heat with it.) Nice... combine that with solar passive design, and you become a net producer of energy.
ja27 18y ago
Where's the tidal flow / Gulf Stream power? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_Stream#Possible_renewable_power_source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_Stream#Possible_renewable_...

28 points by ph0rque 18y ago

tptacek 18y ago

And so if you could just plug your TV into the sun, the wind, or a compost heap, all our problems would be solved.

ph0rque 18y ago
... as opposed to now, when you have to plug it into a lump of coal, some radioactive stuff, or some natural gas http://www.theoildrum.com/files/US%20Electric%20Generation%20by%20Source.png http://www.theoildrum.com/files/US%20Electric%20Generation%2... ?
- tptacek 18y ago
  Actually, I plug my TV into the wall. Which is my point. That we get a lot of sun, wind, and poop is kind of besides the point, isn't it?
  - ph0rque 18y ago
    Not sure I'm following you... the article talks about how the US can switch to wind and solar energy (as well as biofuel for the lulls on non-windy, cloudy days) and meet 100% of our energy demands that way. So yes, the author is advocating solving our problems with sun and wind instead of coal, natural gas, and radioactive material. If done right, this will be rather transparent to you, the end user[1], it will reduce our dependence on non-renewable fuels, and create jobs in the process. You will still be able to plug in your TV to the wall and have it work. 1. Except perhaps for the price...
    - RobertL 18y ago
      The Naib is a babbling idiot. What you and he need to do is "start" local and grow from there. This means installing wind and solar generators at your own homes and cutting yourselves off from the power grid. I think that living like this for a few days and paying the bills you would be paying to live like that is probably the only thing that will finally convince you that the ideas presented here are total nonsense.

pmjordan 18y ago

Love the maps. Where is the author getting them from? Are they available for other parts of the world? And a little more on topic: when travelling through the south of Germany, you'll find about 50% of larger buildings in the countryside have solar panels on the roof. With the right incentives, you can spread this sort of thing pretty quickly. (as far as I know, they get to feed unused electricity back into the grid at the same price at which they draw from the grid; I suspect the initial investment might be subsidised, too) Cross the border to Austria and you see nothing of the sort.

pasbesoin 18y ago
Have a look at the legends on the map images. E.g. http://www.nrel.gov/gis/il_csp.html http://www.nrel.gov/gis/il_csp.html isn't found anymore, but this appears to be a current index for items from the same source http://www.nrel.gov/gis/maps.html http://www.nrel.gov/gis/maps.html NREL == National Renewable Energy Laboratory "The National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL) is the nation's primary laboratory for renewable energy and energy efficiency research and development (R&D). "NREL's mission and strategy are focused on advancing the U.S. Department of Energy's and our nation's energy goals. The laboratory's scientists and researchers support critical market objectives to accelerate research from scientific innovations to market-viable alternative energy solutions..."

ajdecon 18y ago

It would certainly be nice to be able to hit the 10-year goal, but I think it's going to take longer than that. The thing I wonder about is how hard it will be to scale up the manufacturing of the required components of such a system: PV cells, wind turbines, etc. I can't find any good numbers right now, but iirc a lot of the factories and material suppliers are oversubscribed as it is, with multiple-year waiting lists for parts like high-quality solar panels. Building more factories is of course possible, but will take a fair amount of time considering the processes necessary to produce components of the required quality.

peregrine 18y ago
I know of at least one factory going up in Wisconsin. And the possibility of another. I mean just in not so windy Wisconsin we've got a couple places with fields covered in these things. This exact time last year there were none. I don't know the power they put out but I know they exist.
dabeeeenster 18y ago
The problem is that solar panels generally contain fairly rare elements. If everyone in the Western World decided overnight to put solar panels on their roofs, we'd run out of those elements very quickly. It simply isn't possible with the current technology AFAIK. Wind Turbines are a different matter; they are relative simple machines from a commodities point of view.
- dabeeeenster 18y ago
  Having said that Nano Solar are quite interesting - not sure if they are reliant on obscure materials but they are a fascinating company - huge levels of investment in them too... http://www.nanosolar.com/ http://www.nanosolar.com/
- granular 18y ago
  > solar panels generally contain fairly rare elements I'm pretty sure the standard ones are just silicon (sand) plus trace amounts of commonly-available dopants. Nothing exotic. :) The problem of using only renewable energy sources is not a technical one.

meterplech 18y ago

the author speaks of this like if we dont send the money to the middle east we can immediately use it on renewable resources. but, economically there is a reason for the money to be going there, and that's because it is cheaper to use oil. until research can make renewable fuel cheaper (or oil runs out), it will not be economically viable regardless of whether or not the resources and tech exists.

pgebhard 18y ago
Well, isn't there also the "greenhouse gas" factor when using oil. By using wind and solar power, that factor disappears.
dabeeeenster 18y ago
It's not a case of when oil runs out, but when it starts running out. As that happens the price goes up, and things like cars and aeroplanes get more expensive to run. It's currently a lot cheaper to run an electric car from the domestic electricty supply than it is filling it with petrol, and has been for some time.
- kingnothing 18y ago
  What country are you in?

jws 18y ago

It looks like Illinois bribed someone to inflate their wind numbers. (For those outside the US, it is the suspiciously yellow state below the flacid red lake and is well known for corruption in government.) Interesting rule of thumb: The solar power delivered to a typical house's roof is about equal to the electrical demands of that house even at 20% or so conversion efficiency. (Rule breaks in the dark and cold of winter if you try to heat with it.)

ph0rque 18y ago
Interesting rule of thumb: The solar power delivered to a typical house's roof is about equal to the electrical demands of that house even at 20% or so conversion efficiency. (Rule breaks in the dark and cold of winter if you try to heat with it.) Nice... combine that with solar passive design, and you become a net producer of energy.

ja27 18y ago

Where's the tidal flow / Gulf Stream power? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_Stream#Possible_renewable_power_source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_Stream#Possible_renewable_...