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I did some development work on the first idea but didn't get funding or media attention before a founder breakup. For the second idea I was even worse - I decid

I did some development work on the first idea but didn't get funding or media attention before a founder breakup. For the second idea I was even worse - I decided not to even attempt to build the project unless I got YC. This sounds ridiculous, but this story is so incredibly common. I talk to my peers and I read posts about people who completely abandon their projects the moment they fail to get into YC or [name incubator]. As if these fellas are legitimate gate holders. I am admittedly fickle when it comes to startup ideas, but I must make it clear that these were not my only projects - they were the projects that I modeled my understanding of entrepreneurship on. I was the Director of Technology at Modify Watches [1] for two years and helped grow that business with the team to a pretty healthy size. I also created a coupon site that was generating about a thousands bucks a month semi-automatically which I ran for two years. These just weren't Silicon Valley opportunities... I wasn't at the helm. My timespan for success is completely dependent on which level of success I'm looking at. With my current business, I consider the fact that I wrote software which generated revenue within an hour of turning it on to be a pretty huge success. In terms of how long I expect it to take to make the Big Bucks, I am completely realistic that this doesn't happen overnight. I plan to be in this company for the long haul. Although I do not have the life experience of an older gentlemen, I would posit that my experience is light-years ahead of people who are my age. [1] I've literally been running companies or been deeply involved in them almost non-stop since I was 13 years old. I have real, executional experience and textbook knowledge from my Berkeley education. Not to mention, this company is not a company of one... Anywhere my team and I need help, I'm exciting to bring on somebody who does have the life experience. I really appreciate your perspective. I love a bit a constructive criticism / interrogation... It helps with introspection! [0] http://www.modifywatches.com/ http://www.modifywatches.com/ [1] Not necessarily light-years ahead of other 20-year old entrepreneurs, but of the 20-year old public at large.

derefr 13y ago
> I talk to my peers and I read posts about people who completely abandon their projects the moment they fail to get into YC or [name incubator]. Yeesh. As someone who's currently bootstrapping a lifestyle business, this point of view seems downright toxic to me. If you really believe in your company (and its product-market fit), then giving away equity (and control!) should be an absolute last resort, not something to be sought out. Better to work on your business as a side-project for months of alternating consulting gigs and destitution.
- larrys 13y ago
  "then giving away equity (and control!) should be an absolute last resort" You are focusing on the down side and not the upside of taking money. As well as the upside to having to not give up any control or equity vs. the downside to trying to do it without that money. And totally underestimating what you can do with a shit load of money vs. what you can't do.
  - derefr 13y ago
    Note that I said "lifestyle business", not "startup." I can't think of anything outweighing the downside of losing the ability to have my business as an extension of my own life, perfectly meshing into my own desires. If I had fuck-you money[1], all I'd do with it is... start this business. I hope to still be running it in 40 years--and imagining someone having the power to force me to do something I don't want to do with my own company, even after I've put in 40 years of effort into it... well. This is why I would recommend just taking on loans/debt first: when your company grows, you'll pay off debts (and when your company fails bankruptcy/liquidation will still make them go away), but equity is a loan that gets harder and harder to pay out the bigger your company gets. Of course, this is all assuming you're taking investment from someone whose utility function doesn't match your own (usually in that you care more about the business, and they care more about the money.) I would gladly put in with some people--but those are cofounders, not investors. --- [1] But really, I don't think I need fuck-you money--I've planned the business in stages (pre-set pivots), where each stage targets a market of appropriate size and entrenchment to fund the next stage (tackle B2B when small, B2C when huge, basically.) In effect, I'm just planning to be my own investor. :)
    - larrys 13y ago
      That's fine. Please keep in mind though that investors are only one of a group of many people that you have to bogu for ("bend over, grease up"). There are also customers (major and minor), employees, partners (if any) landlords, spouses, kids etc. Agree that not having investors is certainly one less to deal with though. Even on the issues of "customers" that can be granular. Do you have a bunch of small customers who don't know about each other? Or a bunch of small customers that do know about each other (and can create a problem for you if you don't beat to their drum?). Do you have the type of business (not you but anyone reading this) that has a concentration of business with 3 large customers and if any of them left you'd have a big problem? Do you have someone who owes you money, won't pay (a big sum of money) and you have sleepless nights? "and when your company fails bankruptcy/liquidation will still make them go away" I come from a time and place where failure like that was viewed differently. It would not be as easy for me to do that and not have it bother me. That said it's not a bad mindset if it doesn't have the same impact on you (you're lucky it's really hard to un-ring that bell).
larrys 13y ago
"I read posts about people who completely abandon their projects the moment they fail to get into YC or [name incubator]. As if these fellas are legitimate gate holders." Shows you the brainwashing going on in the community just like any community actually. [1] But they are gate holders for that dream. Look people try to get into good colleges also. But they don't abandon going to college if they don't get accepted to "A" schools. "I would posit that my experience is light-years ahead of people who are my age." Anecdotally, I agree after reading your post. [1] Wedding singers, wedding photographers probably feel the same way. Entertainment and creative pyramid simply doesn't give much respect to people who don't volunteer for suicide missions. Taking the bullet is viewed as being honorable, not stupid.

derefr 13y ago

> I talk to my peers and I read posts about people who completely abandon their projects the moment they fail to get into YC or [name incubator]. Yeesh. As someone who's currently bootstrapping a lifestyle business, this point of view seems downright toxic to me. If you really believe in your company (and its product-market fit), then giving away equity (and control!) should be an absolute last resort, not something to be sought out. Better to work on your business as a side-project for months of alternating consulting gigs and destitution.

larrys 13y ago
"then giving away equity (and control!) should be an absolute last resort" You are focusing on the down side and not the upside of taking money. As well as the upside to having to not give up any control or equity vs. the downside to trying to do it without that money. And totally underestimating what you can do with a shit load of money vs. what you can't do.
- derefr 13y ago
  Note that I said "lifestyle business", not "startup." I can't think of anything outweighing the downside of losing the ability to have my business as an extension of my own life, perfectly meshing into my own desires. If I had fuck-you money[1], all I'd do with it is... start this business. I hope to still be running it in 40 years--and imagining someone having the power to force me to do something I don't want to do with my own company, even after I've put in 40 years of effort into it... well. This is why I would recommend just taking on loans/debt first: when your company grows, you'll pay off debts (and when your company fails bankruptcy/liquidation will still make them go away), but equity is a loan that gets harder and harder to pay out the bigger your company gets. Of course, this is all assuming you're taking investment from someone whose utility function doesn't match your own (usually in that you care more about the business, and they care more about the money.) I would gladly put in with some people--but those are cofounders, not investors. --- [1] But really, I don't think I need fuck-you money--I've planned the business in stages (pre-set pivots), where each stage targets a market of appropriate size and entrenchment to fund the next stage (tackle B2B when small, B2C when huge, basically.) In effect, I'm just planning to be my own investor. :)
  - larrys 13y ago
    That's fine. Please keep in mind though that investors are only one of a group of many people that you have to bogu for ("bend over, grease up"). There are also customers (major and minor), employees, partners (if any) landlords, spouses, kids etc. Agree that not having investors is certainly one less to deal with though. Even on the issues of "customers" that can be granular. Do you have a bunch of small customers who don't know about each other? Or a bunch of small customers that do know about each other (and can create a problem for you if you don't beat to their drum?). Do you have the type of business (not you but anyone reading this) that has a concentration of business with 3 large customers and if any of them left you'd have a big problem? Do you have someone who owes you money, won't pay (a big sum of money) and you have sleepless nights? "and when your company fails bankruptcy/liquidation will still make them go away" I come from a time and place where failure like that was viewed differently. It would not be as easy for me to do that and not have it bother me. That said it's not a bad mindset if it doesn't have the same impact on you (you're lucky it's really hard to un-ring that bell).

larrys 13y ago

"I read posts about people who completely abandon their projects the moment they fail to get into YC or [name incubator]. As if these fellas are legitimate gate holders." Shows you the brainwashing going on in the community just like any community actually. [1] But they are gate holders for that dream. Look people try to get into good colleges also. But they don't abandon going to college if they don't get accepted to "A" schools. "I would posit that my experience is light-years ahead of people who are my age." Anecdotally, I agree after reading your post. [1] Wedding singers, wedding photographers probably feel the same way. Entertainment and creative pyramid simply doesn't give much respect to people who don't volunteer for suicide missions. Taking the bullet is viewed as being honorable, not stupid.