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Here's a good reason: your entire comment is judgmental and assuming. It's not about hearing "hey, good job girl! Have a cookie!" It's about not hearing "your c

by marquis 14y ago

Here's a good reason: your entire comment is judgmental and assuming. It's not about hearing "hey, good job girl! Have a cookie!" It's about not hearing "your code is badly formatted, didn't you go to CS school?" instead of "that was a good refactor there, but you'll find it easier to read and share if you indent". Women have just grown up in different kind of group dynamics - and while women can be horribly nasty to each other in artificial groups, it's usually not the case when they choose to work together independently.

pifflesnort 14y ago
To quote another story on the front page: ... that’s what happens when we hold events for women in IT when there aren’t that many women in this industry – we tend to broaden the definition of women in IT. The software industry exists to write software, and ideally it's good software. We're not here to engender happy feelings about bad code. If you're worried about immature people non-constructively mocking your code, then the solution is to realize that those people are unlikely to be particularly great developers themselves, and aren't worth paying attention to. Any sufficiently experienced and mature developer ought to know better than to throw stones from the glass house of their own imperfection. It's better to join or create a welcoming community of experts, than trying to create a coddling safe-space where equally inexperienced people can provide each other with congratulatory pats on the back.
- marquis 14y ago
  There are an estimated 9-12% women in the field of programming. Are you saying that 90% of the female population has no balls? Or is it more likely that due the systemic method of education, girls don't get interested in programming because by the time they are taught it, the boys are in the computer lab making a ruckus and they'd rather go socialize elsewhere. I speak with teachers at primary schools who get girls as young as 9 to enter robotics competitions. I mentor young programmers to stay enthused, get through their teen years (more often than not, not programming because of socialization aspect) and pick it up again in their later teens when being alone is fine again. And now the IRC channels and open source communities are solely male and there seems no way in. Ada, of all foundations, knows this better than anyone and this is very, very small step to get some more girls back into coding and sharing that experience with others.
  - pifflesnort 14y ago
    > Are you saying that 90% of the female population has no balls? No. The major hurdles to becoming a programmer are crossed long before it becomes time to put code in a github repository. > Or is it more likely that due the systemic method of education, girls don't get interested in programming because by the time they are taught it, the boys are in the computer lab making a ruckus and they'd rather go socialize elsewhere. Given that there aren't any well-considered studies that show fundamental non-socially-caused cognitive differences between men and women, and that behavior seems to be entirely mutable and culturally-driven, then the fact that "they'd rather go socialize elsewhere" is likely the result of considerable cultural programming outside the immediate realm of putting code into a machine. Of course, it's not that simple -- yours is a broad and inaccurate generalization of what girls want in school, and of how boys behave in school. Personally speaking, I didn't want to spend any time in the computer lab either, because the only people in there were super-nerds playing video games for hours.
    - marquis 14y ago
      > the only people in there were super-nerds playing video games for hours I know! It was really annoying. I just wanted to get stuck into computerized maths, CAD and plotting when I was 14 but it was uncomfortable being the only girl in the lab during lunch hours. If there had been another boy or girl I respected as a friend there I might have joined in, not to be sociable but just knowing there was someone else there who wasn't geeking out on gaming.
      - pifflesnort 14y ago
        Compared to advancing your knowledge of programming, CAD, et al, it's a lot easier to bolster your ego and social standing with video games, so that's what those kids do. I think the solution (for schools, anyway) would be adult-led structured activities where intelligence and hard work are rewarded: electronics/robotics/programming clubs, with long-term group projects where people with varied levels of experience can be accommodated. I'd naively like to believe that gender can be left out of it, other than making a structured effort to recruit students irrespective of gender.

by marquis 14y ago

pifflesnort 14y ago

To quote another story on the front page: ... that’s what happens when we hold events for women in IT when there aren’t that many women in this industry – we tend to broaden the definition of women in IT. The software industry exists to write software, and ideally it's good software. We're not here to engender happy feelings about bad code. If you're worried about immature people non-constructively mocking your code, then the solution is to realize that those people are unlikely to be particularly great developers themselves, and aren't worth paying attention to. Any sufficiently experienced and mature developer ought to know better than to throw stones from the glass house of their own imperfection. It's better to join or create a welcoming community of experts, than trying to create a coddling safe-space where equally inexperienced people can provide each other with congratulatory pats on the back.

marquis 14y ago
There are an estimated 9-12% women in the field of programming. Are you saying that 90% of the female population has no balls? Or is it more likely that due the systemic method of education, girls don't get interested in programming because by the time they are taught it, the boys are in the computer lab making a ruckus and they'd rather go socialize elsewhere. I speak with teachers at primary schools who get girls as young as 9 to enter robotics competitions. I mentor young programmers to stay enthused, get through their teen years (more often than not, not programming because of socialization aspect) and pick it up again in their later teens when being alone is fine again. And now the IRC channels and open source communities are solely male and there seems no way in. Ada, of all foundations, knows this better than anyone and this is very, very small step to get some more girls back into coding and sharing that experience with others.
- pifflesnort 14y ago
  > Are you saying that 90% of the female population has no balls? No. The major hurdles to becoming a programmer are crossed long before it becomes time to put code in a github repository. > Or is it more likely that due the systemic method of education, girls don't get interested in programming because by the time they are taught it, the boys are in the computer lab making a ruckus and they'd rather go socialize elsewhere. Given that there aren't any well-considered studies that show fundamental non-socially-caused cognitive differences between men and women, and that behavior seems to be entirely mutable and culturally-driven, then the fact that "they'd rather go socialize elsewhere" is likely the result of considerable cultural programming outside the immediate realm of putting code into a machine. Of course, it's not that simple -- yours is a broad and inaccurate generalization of what girls want in school, and of how boys behave in school. Personally speaking, I didn't want to spend any time in the computer lab either, because the only people in there were super-nerds playing video games for hours.
  - marquis 14y ago
    > the only people in there were super-nerds playing video games for hours I know! It was really annoying. I just wanted to get stuck into computerized maths, CAD and plotting when I was 14 but it was uncomfortable being the only girl in the lab during lunch hours. If there had been another boy or girl I respected as a friend there I might have joined in, not to be sociable but just knowing there was someone else there who wasn't geeking out on gaming.
    - pifflesnort 14y ago
      Compared to advancing your knowledge of programming, CAD, et al, it's a lot easier to bolster your ego and social standing with video games, so that's what those kids do. I think the solution (for schools, anyway) would be adult-led structured activities where intelligence and hard work are rewarded: electronics/robotics/programming clubs, with long-term group projects where people with varied levels of experience can be accommodated. I'd naively like to believe that gender can be left out of it, other than making a structured effort to recruit students irrespective of gender.