6 ms·

Last night me and my buddy were talking about the future of personal transportation and how when cars (or helicopters) start flying themselves people will resor

Last night me and my buddy were talking about the future of personal transportation and how when cars (or helicopters) start flying themselves people will resort to jailbreaking them to take back control.

tbrownaw 13y ago
...why? Having control of the car requires paying attention to the car and surroundings. I'd rather be able to ignore all that and have more time for reading (whether educational or entertainment) and such.
- slg 13y ago
  Some people actually enjoy driving/flying. That said, in order to get the true efficiency of computer controlled vehicles, it really helps to have them all computer controlled.
  - moheeb 13y ago
    I don't believe that anyone truly enjoys driving. If that were the case I could say "I need a ride to North Dakota" and someone would totally be like "yeah I love driving, hop in!" That never happens. People that love surfing will surf at every opportunity you give them, people that love eating will eat nearly anything you put in front of them. People that love driving.....well I need a ride to North Dakota.
    - yew 13y ago
      I enjoy flying, though not driving, and I wouldn't fly you to North Dakota just because you asked me. It's too expensive when you're not doing it for fun. (Also, North Dakota is cold and far away.)
    - Zak 13y ago
      Some people enjoy driving in certain situations. Few people get much enjoyment out of guiding a car down the interstate; it's boring, but breaking concentration can be rapidly fatal. No, I won't drive you to North Dakota. Many people enjoy driving a sports car down a mountain road with light/no traffic though. If you wanted me to drive you from Flagstaff to Sedona[0] in a Mazda Miata, I'd do it happily, over and over. I would rather do that myself than let a computer do it, even if the computer can do it safer and faster. [0] https://maps.google.com/maps?q=flagstaff+to+sedona&saddr=flagstaff&daddr=sedona&hl=en&ll=34.998785,-111.694565&spn=0.284612,0.41851&sll=30.34499,-81.683107&sspn=1.199363,1.674042&geocode=FUghGQIdL4VY-SkxJi7a944thzEAs9vOoTwfjg%3BFewRFAIdoqlW-SkNsEL5MqEthzH9jmz6I8VIVQ&t=h&z=12 https://maps.google.com/maps?q=flagstaff+to+sedona&saddr...
    - slg 13y ago
      That is a silly conclusion to make. For a more HN relevant analogy try replacing driving in your post with coding and a ride to North Dakota with building an MVP. Would you suggest that no one really likes to code or that people should volunteer to work for you with no future expectations just because they enjoy their job?
    - nijiko 13y ago
      I love driving, and it's the reason we were talking about having to jailbreak your future transportational means to begin with. :P
    - jasonlotito 13y ago
      Will someone surf me to North Dakota?
    - jasonlotito 13y ago
      Will someone surf me to North Dakota?
    - driverdan 13y ago
      I love driving. I'd drive you to ND assuming you'd compensate me for the time it'd take from my work. That cost would make it extremely impractical for you to choose that option though. Just because someone loves driving doesn't mean they can't be practical about it.
- yew 13y ago
  'Control' doesn't necessarily mean 'personally pay attention to all the details'. Even if you let the car/plane/misc operate itself, the legal ramifications of rooting are interesting (presuming you've already reached the point of having cars without manual overrides, that is). Imagine the impact of rooting your car on your insurance, for example.
- opminion 13y ago
  Agree, in fact driving a car on the road is a very questionable freedom. But some would like to exercise it in spite of restrictions, for a variety of reasons. I had hoped that self-driving cars prevented also others from driving their cars. But the grandparent comment just spoiled my hopes.
  - gcr 13y ago
    One trend I see is giving up freedom for safety. I wonder if that trend will continue here.
    - opminion 13y ago
      Given the toll of road traffic in terms of human lives, removing the freedom to choose the precise driving speed and the distance from the preceding vehicles and adjacent lanes, is a no brainer.
      - merlincorey 13y ago
        Because no software ever has bugs under unknown conditions. I think removing (human) brains from the equation will still result in there still being casualties - even if there are much less.
        gcr 13y ago
        Making a change that lowers the number of failures is the definition of improvement. Devil's advocate: For humans who insist on trying to drive anyway, we can give them race tracks or have designated "Human Driving" areas. It won't ever go away completely.
        jff 13y ago
        "Please step into the 'free speech zone', your opinions are frightening the others"
- anonfunction 13y ago
  Because I enjoy driving, and I'm sure I would enjoy flying as well. Obviously we weren't talking about manually overriding the system for every commute to the grocery store or even over urban populated areas.
- pessimizer 13y ago
  What if you have to jailbreak it to get it to go where you want it to go?
moconnor 13y ago
Except that flying a jailbroken plane with custom software in public airspace really should be illegal. It'll lead to interesting times, if not more open ones...
Zak 13y ago
That has already started. Cars have had antilock brakes for a long time now. Sometimes those are sensitive enough to harm braking performance when the car is driven by an expert under race conditions. It is not uncommon for people building race cars from street cars or racing cars they also drive on the street to disable ABS. Now, traction/stability control is mandated by law. Worse yet, if there's a switch to disable it or set it to a "sport mode" that intervenes less aggressively, it must reset to full-on every time the engine is started. It's that last bit I really dislike; I generally appreciate help from computers in various aspects of my life, but once I make my intent clear, I want the machine to respect my decisions.
- reustle 13y ago
  Expert drivers under race conditions? I pull my ABS plugs every winter because it's terrible in snow. Pump the brakes manually and you're much better off than the standard ABS chatter.
  - Zak 13y ago
    I was trying to make my claim as non-controversial as possible. I agree that it fails under a lot of conditions and many above-average drivers are better off without it.
  - driverdan 13y ago
    You must have a car with terrible ABS. Bad weather such as snow is the only time I prefer ABS. It makes controlled stops in bad conditions much easier and more controlled.
- stinky613 13y ago
  I had no idea that ESC was required by law. Sure enough, you're right; U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard Rule 126 [1]: "require electronic stability control (ESC) systems on passenger cars, multipurpose passenger vehicles, trucks, and buses with a gross vehicle weight rating of 4,536 Kg (10,000 pounds) or less" Apparently similar laws exist in Canada, Australia, and the EU. I guess you learn something new every day. [1] http://www.nhtsa.gov/Laws+&+Regulations/Electronic+Stability+Control+(ESC) http://www.nhtsa.gov/Laws+&+Regulations/Electronic+Stabi...
r00fus 13y ago
Clearly will be banned in future due to terror-inspired law. I mean, only terrorists would go against the built-in navigator, right?

tbrownaw 13y ago

...why? Having control of the car requires paying attention to the car and surroundings. I'd rather be able to ignore all that and have more time for reading (whether educational or entertainment) and such.

slg 13y ago
Some people actually enjoy driving/flying. That said, in order to get the true efficiency of computer controlled vehicles, it really helps to have them all computer controlled.
- moheeb 13y ago
  I don't believe that anyone truly enjoys driving. If that were the case I could say "I need a ride to North Dakota" and someone would totally be like "yeah I love driving, hop in!" That never happens. People that love surfing will surf at every opportunity you give them, people that love eating will eat nearly anything you put in front of them. People that love driving.....well I need a ride to North Dakota.
  - yew 13y ago
    I enjoy flying, though not driving, and I wouldn't fly you to North Dakota just because you asked me. It's too expensive when you're not doing it for fun. (Also, North Dakota is cold and far away.)
  - Zak 13y ago
    Some people enjoy driving in certain situations. Few people get much enjoyment out of guiding a car down the interstate; it's boring, but breaking concentration can be rapidly fatal. No, I won't drive you to North Dakota. Many people enjoy driving a sports car down a mountain road with light/no traffic though. If you wanted me to drive you from Flagstaff to Sedona[0] in a Mazda Miata, I'd do it happily, over and over. I would rather do that myself than let a computer do it, even if the computer can do it safer and faster. [0] https://maps.google.com/maps?q=flagstaff+to+sedona&saddr=flagstaff&daddr=sedona&hl=en&ll=34.998785,-111.694565&spn=0.284612,0.41851&sll=30.34499,-81.683107&sspn=1.199363,1.674042&geocode=FUghGQIdL4VY-SkxJi7a944thzEAs9vOoTwfjg%3BFewRFAIdoqlW-SkNsEL5MqEthzH9jmz6I8VIVQ&t=h&z=12 https://maps.google.com/maps?q=flagstaff+to+sedona&saddr...
  - slg 13y ago
    That is a silly conclusion to make. For a more HN relevant analogy try replacing driving in your post with coding and a ride to North Dakota with building an MVP. Would you suggest that no one really likes to code or that people should volunteer to work for you with no future expectations just because they enjoy their job?
  - nijiko 13y ago
    I love driving, and it's the reason we were talking about having to jailbreak your future transportational means to begin with. :P
  - jasonlotito 13y ago
    Will someone surf me to North Dakota?
  - jasonlotito 13y ago
    Will someone surf me to North Dakota?
  - driverdan 13y ago
    I love driving. I'd drive you to ND assuming you'd compensate me for the time it'd take from my work. That cost would make it extremely impractical for you to choose that option though. Just because someone loves driving doesn't mean they can't be practical about it.
yew 13y ago
'Control' doesn't necessarily mean 'personally pay attention to all the details'. Even if you let the car/plane/misc operate itself, the legal ramifications of rooting are interesting (presuming you've already reached the point of having cars without manual overrides, that is). Imagine the impact of rooting your car on your insurance, for example.
opminion 13y ago
Agree, in fact driving a car on the road is a very questionable freedom. But some would like to exercise it in spite of restrictions, for a variety of reasons. I had hoped that self-driving cars prevented also others from driving their cars. But the grandparent comment just spoiled my hopes.
- gcr 13y ago
  One trend I see is giving up freedom for safety. I wonder if that trend will continue here.
  - opminion 13y ago
    Given the toll of road traffic in terms of human lives, removing the freedom to choose the precise driving speed and the distance from the preceding vehicles and adjacent lanes, is a no brainer.
    - merlincorey 13y ago
      Because no software ever has bugs under unknown conditions. I think removing (human) brains from the equation will still result in there still being casualties - even if there are much less.
      - gcr 13y ago
        Making a change that lowers the number of failures is the definition of improvement. Devil's advocate: For humans who insist on trying to drive anyway, we can give them race tracks or have designated "Human Driving" areas. It won't ever go away completely.
        jff 13y ago
        "Please step into the 'free speech zone', your opinions are frightening the others"
anonfunction 13y ago
Because I enjoy driving, and I'm sure I would enjoy flying as well. Obviously we weren't talking about manually overriding the system for every commute to the grocery store or even over urban populated areas.
pessimizer 13y ago
What if you have to jailbreak it to get it to go where you want it to go?

moconnor 13y ago

Except that flying a jailbroken plane with custom software in public airspace really should be illegal. It'll lead to interesting times, if not more open ones...

Zak 13y ago

That has already started. Cars have had antilock brakes for a long time now. Sometimes those are sensitive enough to harm braking performance when the car is driven by an expert under race conditions. It is not uncommon for people building race cars from street cars or racing cars they also drive on the street to disable ABS. Now, traction/stability control is mandated by law. Worse yet, if there's a switch to disable it or set it to a "sport mode" that intervenes less aggressively, it must reset to full-on every time the engine is started. It's that last bit I really dislike; I generally appreciate help from computers in various aspects of my life, but once I make my intent clear, I want the machine to respect my decisions.

reustle 13y ago
Expert drivers under race conditions? I pull my ABS plugs every winter because it's terrible in snow. Pump the brakes manually and you're much better off than the standard ABS chatter.
- Zak 13y ago
  I was trying to make my claim as non-controversial as possible. I agree that it fails under a lot of conditions and many above-average drivers are better off without it.
- driverdan 13y ago
  You must have a car with terrible ABS. Bad weather such as snow is the only time I prefer ABS. It makes controlled stops in bad conditions much easier and more controlled.
stinky613 13y ago
I had no idea that ESC was required by law. Sure enough, you're right; U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard Rule 126 [1]: "require electronic stability control (ESC) systems on passenger cars, multipurpose passenger vehicles, trucks, and buses with a gross vehicle weight rating of 4,536 Kg (10,000 pounds) or less" Apparently similar laws exist in Canada, Australia, and the EU. I guess you learn something new every day. [1] http://www.nhtsa.gov/Laws+&+Regulations/Electronic+Stability+Control+(ESC) http://www.nhtsa.gov/Laws+&+Regulations/Electronic+Stabi...

r00fus 13y ago

Clearly will be banned in future due to terror-inspired law. I mean, only terrorists would go against the built-in navigator, right?