8 ms·

GitHub donates private repositories to women learning open source software

74 points by nealyoung 13y ago

sergiotapia 13y ago
Or you know, use BitBucket that offers free private repositories for everyone and anyone.
- dsyph3r 13y ago
  I think you're missing the point.
  - reinhardt 13y ago
    Since "the point" is a PR stunt for a "problem" that has at least one other solution, I don't blame him.
  - vampirechicken 13y ago
    I think you're missing segiotapia's point.
  - redidas 13y ago
    I think github's missing the point. To encourage a group to do open source we provide them with private repositories? I get how this group may feel hesitant to post something in the open source world, but so was I, and I'm a guy. Here's an analogy that maybe fits: Consider you meet someone that's afraid of flying. Do you say "come with me, I'll show you its safe" or do you say "here's a bunch of train and bus passes"
    - marquis 13y ago
      >come with me, I'll show you its safe That's exactly what's happening. Plus they are paying for the tickets.
    - dsyph3r 13y ago
      Writing code in an open source environment can be extremely intimidating. There is an unfortunate element of elitism around writing code and this can be very off putting for many people. Being able to code, learn, and get criticism in the privacy of a private repository is a big step toward open sourcing your code
      - prodigal_erik 13y ago
        I'm pro-elitism. It seems to me that only the most dedicated and obsessed have even a small chance of ever doing decent work, and I'm all for dissuading everyone else from adding to the mountain of poorly understood and unreliable garbage holding back our profession. I don't think anyone knows how to give (inflict?) that obsession to any child who didn't already have it, but luring the timid into a field at this stage so lacking in rigor is a waste of the useful talents they could offer to other fields.
clintonc 13y ago
I'm actually pretty angry about this. A much better plan would have been to offer free private repositories to any not-for-profit entity. Offering exclusively to women seems, to me, discriminatory. Edit: Reading the article more closely, I'm not as bothered as as I was. Technically, Github granted unlimited private repositories to the Ada organization, who (I suppose) delegates their use to its members. It's not as though you can go to github.com and say, "I'm a woman, give me free private repositories."
- qntmfred 13y ago
  well since Ada is paying the sponsorship, I guess they can distribute them however they like, yes?
  - clintonc 13y ago
    The way I see it, ADA is not paying -- Github is donating. This is, actually, much less incendiary than the headline would lead us to believe...
- hnewser1 13y ago
  you are angry? lol. how dare they make you angry? take a breathe, turn-off your computer and get out. come back when you grow up.
bencollier49 13y ago
IANAL, but this appears to be a breach of the Equality Act 2010. Are they offering this in the UK?
- marquis 13y ago
  If you'd like to get your local Scouts group to work on code within the safe measures of private repos, I'm sure you'd also find sponsors. It's not a breach of Equality when you aren't stopping other people from doing something. I'm sure Github would love sponsorship from all over the place. A benefit of this is clever on Ada and Github's part: a lot of women don't participate in code sharing because of reasons that are discussed here enough. So women will get to find each other and work on code together and hey, the world gets software, and Github makes some happy new customers. I, for one, am signing up even though I barely have the time - I'm eager to meet other women coders in a working environment and I'd like to find a small way to pay back the massive debt I have to the open source community.
  - pnathan 13y ago
    There is often a disjoint set of expectations between F/LOSS culture and women (besides occasional outright misogyny). Providing a system where women can be eased into the coding experience is, IMO, a very kind thing to do. I visited a church recently and some college students spoke about why they chose that church. Uniformly, the kindness of the church community was a common thread through their comments. It's a human thing: we lean towards people who show kindness to us, especially in forms we can relate to. These bridging activities such as what Github and the Ada Initiative are doing provide a great deal of value in my opinion.
    - theorique 13y ago
      What you say makes a lot of sense. In another comment on this, I mentioned that the leaders of the open source world seem to be famously aggressive, prickly, and concerned only with the truth, not with feelings or being polite [1]. Changing the culture to something "kind", if that is what the community truly wants, will take more than a few donated repos. It will be interesting to see the impact it happens. [1] One of many examples http://www.muktware.com/3703/linus-torvalds-nvidia-fuck-you http://www.muktware.com/3703/linus-torvalds-nvidia-fuck-you
archon 13y ago
> This reluctance has good reasons behind it: fear of being told they are bad programmers, fear of being publicly mocked or harassed, and even fear of losing job opportunities. All of these are greater risks for women on average than men. [Citation needed] Edit, to expand on the kneejerk reaction: I find it difficult to accept the premise that this is a female-only problem. I've been reluctant to post my code before as well, and I'm male. The sometimes ruthless mockery of code isn't confined to code written by females.
- marquis 13y ago
  For what it's worth, you'd be completely welcome as far as I'm (as a female) concerned. Women don't want to just hang out with women but this is an opportunity for us to get our feet wet in the OS community. As soon as a project is underway with pride, it will become a public repo and I hope you can seek out those communities and work alongside. I just watched The Color Purple last night. It rings true in me because it's not that people aren't free - it's the constant, constant underlying of fear from all sides. If you have fear as a man then women don't want that either - you should be proud and comfortable as only fear begets fear.
- steveklabnik 13y ago
  > I find it difficult to accept the premise that this is a female-only problem. It doesn't need to be a woman-only problem. It just needs to affect women disproportionately. Scratch that, it doesn't need to be _anything_. Giving free repos to _anyone_ does no harm to anyone who's not getting them, so the only thing this does is help a group of people. Now, you may argue that GitHub should be helping a specific group of people over another one, but they've chosen to help who they've chosen to help.
  - archon 13y ago
    Yeah, I could have worded my objection better. I'm not doubting that the rather brutal nature of OSS is a problem for both men and women. I'm just skeptical that it affects women disproportionately. If you say "getting your code ripped to shreds in public sucks," I'd wholeheartedly agree with you. If you say "getting your code ripped to shreds in public as a woman sucks more," that's where I get skeptical. And if that's the case, why is it a bigger problem for women? Note that I'm not arguing against GitHub giving private repos to whomever they please. They can sponsor who they like. I was just looking for some explanation of that "women are more affected by this than men" claim.
tedchs 13y ago
FWIW, it seems like this will not give you private repos under your own Github Account, but just a private repo under the Github "organization" for the Ada Initiative.
jcoder 13y ago
I can't believe the whining comments here so far. GitHub can contribute to any organization it wants to.
- pifflesnort 13y ago
  People are also free to criticize Github for any reason they want to. Personally, I think the Ada Initiative is doing far more harm than good. They're pushing a strange brand of coddling and gender privilege.
  - marquis 13y ago
    It's fine you think that. I think that hundreds of girls don't really care about that initial help, will get some seriously good programming done, release some fantastic code and not read your comment at all except with a passing glance at someone who feels slighted for something that doesn't affect him at all.
    - pifflesnort 13y ago
      > ... except with a passing glance at someone who feels slighted for something that doesn't affect him at all. If the Ada Initiative didn't affect the rest of the industry at all, then they wouldn't be considered effective at their mission. Whether or not you agree with the way they approach their mission is another question.
      - marquis 13y ago
        Is this a zero sum game? Are there only 1000 jobs ever in the world and men are worried for their positions?
- reinhardt 13y ago
  True. At the same time if GitHub (or anyone else) dared contribute to an organization promoting, say, men's right's, you'd never hear the end of it.
manacit 13y ago
I get five free private repos for being a university student (for as long as I'm a student) - I don't see why we can't just extend something like this to people who are learning how to program / use github, and not just women/students
- steveklabnik 13y ago
  They could, but they're not. Obviously they have a reason to do so, are you aware of what that is and why they might choose that reason?
- lizzard 13y ago
  That's great, and maybe you have student groups too that will be supportive and in which you will develop a useful network of peers and mentors!
visualcsharp 13y ago
I'm pretty surprised to see this. What about men who are just starting out with learning to code and don't want their scratch-space projects visible to everyone (and potentially archived for all time)? Using demographics is the wrong approach; instead, GitHub should use one's ability to pay as a baseline (non-profit companies, individual developers, etc.)
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
rounak 13y ago
Private repository for learning open source software. Makes perfect sense.
woah 13y ago
IANAW, but this almost seems sexist in and of itself. Is Github shielding the delicate female programmers from the merciless wrath of internet trolls? I guess the assumption is that big strong male programmers don't need this kind of coddling.
- marquis 13y ago
  This reply is exactly why this initiative is needed. Can't you just say 'hey, more people contributing to open source!'
  - dcope 13y ago
    How is pushing code to a private repository 'contributing to open source'?
    - marquis 13y ago
      I expect that if a significant portion of work was done to an existing fork, or a significant bug found, it would be celebrated and immediately pushed back to the community. It would be exactly the same as if I downloaded Linux, made some awesome changes then sat on it and just shared it with my friends. A ridiculous thought.
    - jcoder 13y ago
      They're learning together and need collaboration tools.
    - bryanlarsen 13y ago
      This makes it easier for people to clean up their code before letting the world see it. I wouldn't be surprised if it made some people more willing to contribute.
  - SeanDav 13y ago
    I doubt you would have felt the same way if Github had announced they were making free repositories available, but only to male developers...
Voidkom 13y ago
For those crying sexism, go take a look at the amount of women in the business, now THAT's what sexism looks like.
- bdg 13y ago
  You haven't demonstrated sexism, simply numbers. This is like saying child and youth workers (or any other female dominated roll) is sexist towards men.
- byroot 13y ago
  Go take a look at the amount of men in the business of midwifing, it's even worse. Is there anything that prevent a men to work in this field ? I know a guy who did, so I can tell you: Nothing. If we lack of women in CS it's mostly because women themselves thinks it's not attractive, just like they don't see trucker, or construction worker as attractive jobs. For the same reason teaching, widwifing, etc lack of mens. IHMO: It's the culture that drive the inbalance in a given field, and the inbalance that create some macho mens, not the other way.
  - ddagradi 13y ago
    GitHub is not a company involved in the business of midwifing. They are a company involved in the business of software development. Is it not possible that the cultural imbalance in all of these fields is due to sexism?
  - marquis 13y ago
    Nursing and other non-doctoral programs work hard to increase the numbers of men. It is never seen as reverse sexism in these cases.
- biot 13y ago
  Similar to how companies used to advertise job openings seeking a "girl Friday" for secretarial work. It sure was tough cracking the sexist, women-dominated secretary industry.
- Posibyte 13y ago
Nux 13y ago
I can give private repos, too. Now put me on HN first page!
anoncow 13y ago
How do female programmers differ from male programmers? I find this offensive. There are better ways to help promote programming among women. Equal salaries for starters could be a real equaliser.
- eridius 13y ago
  Yes, I too am offended that an organization would dare donate anything to the Ada Initiative. Since we obviously live in a post-sexist egalitarian society, any sort of donation to one organization is clearly discriminatory against those not part of or benefitting from the organization! </sarcasm> I'm pretty damn sure GitHub can't affect the salaries of women that aren't direct employees of them. In what way does GitHub doing what it can do, which is donate to an organization like the Ada Initiative, cause offense?
  - juridatenshi 13y ago
    Agreed with you about the donations. Tangentially, it would be cool if GitHub had more diversity in their software engineering staff - that is something they have control over.
    - marquis 13y ago
      A really good way to increase the diversity of your staff is to encourage education for minority groups.
      - juridatenshi 13y ago
        Definitely. I'm excited they're doing this, and I think it is useful. :) The comment about hiring was mostly an aside as something else I wish they were taking more active efforts with in addition to efforts like this one.
  - anoncow 13y ago
    On second thoughts, my comment was over the top. Doing something is better than nothing and github is doing something. So kudos to that.
caiob 13y ago
Why?
- marquis 13y ago
  From the article: "In working with women in open source, the Ada Initiative found that many women are reluctant to post their code publicly when they are first getting started in open source software. This reluctance has good reasons behind it: fear of being told they are bad programmers, fear of being publicly mocked or harassed, and even fear of losing job opportunities. All of these are greater risks for women on average than men. But the best way to get better at programming is to collaborate with and get review from other programmers, which is far easier to do with a shared repository like those provided by GitHub. Unfortunately, private repositories are too expensive for most women just getting started in open source software."
  - theorique 13y ago
    Unfortunately, private repositories are too expensive for most women just getting started in open source software. If $7-12 / month (github's two lowest cost paid plans) is 'too expensive' for a person getting started in open source software, that person might want to rethink how interested and/or committed they actually are. It's fine if Ada / github want to give female programmers a leg up to accomplish some social goal. But don't pretend it's due to some insurmountable financial cost.
    - marquis 13y ago
      I didn't write the article, but I agree with the premise. Women earn less, have children who come first. If you have small kids at home the best possible job is programming but you don't have a credit card or saving up for the winter power bill comes first.
      - theorique 13y ago
        Fair point. Although it would seem in that case like time or social connection are bigger barriers. I guess people and orgs will do what they can.
seivan 13y ago
What about LGBTQ, what about transgendered? Does this only apply to cis-females? So if this is a demographic Github wants to see an increase in, does this mean they don't care enough about others?
- blocking_io 13y ago
  Your concern trolling would be much more effective if you read the linked article.
- alxp 13y ago
  An advocacy group for other minorities in tech probably just got a great idea of something they can lobby for themselves, and are very thankful to the Ada Initiative for the idea.
mindcrime 13y ago
All in all, I think (well, hope) this is a Good Thing. To the extent that (some?) women face different (or more severe) problems in getting started in programming and contributing to F/OSS projects, if this helps ease that process, then it's a win for the world. Now, I can understand some of the reactions, from both men and women. On the one hand, I can see why guys might say "isn't this just a different form of sexism?" and I can see how even some women might be offended (the same kind of women who freak out if a man holds a door open for them, probably). But despite all that, this has a chance to get more people involved in, and contributing to, the F/OSS world. For that, I think we can accept a small measure of "reverse sexism", given the context, and I think the radfem types can like it or leave it, while their female peers are busy writing code. Yeah, it would be nice to live in a world which is more or less totally gender-blind, but we're not there yet and this move may at least help level the playing field a little bit.
lawnchair_larry 13y ago
I'm really starting to wonder if The Ada Initiative is making more enemies than progress. Are they trying to promote equality, or female privilege?
bobsicle 13y ago
I'm a paying github user, and I love github but I can't believe github allowed this. Firstly they are not helping open source if the code is private and secondly it should be for everyone. We hear a lot of people women nowadays complain about inequality and shit, if they are honest they should know this is utterly wrong and should do something to change it, else it's a bit hypocritical. no?
SeoxyS 13y ago
I fully support GitHub's right to do whatever they want, but I can't help but find this slightly distasteful. This is affirmative action, which I disagree with in principle.
needacig 13y ago
To those saying, "Why is this necessary? This isn't fair!", Well, here's your answer: http://xkcd.com/385/ http://xkcd.com/385/ (XKCD nailed it, as usual.)
- dwild 13y ago
  And here's my answer: Are you a girl? We are on the internet, I can't see you, I have no idea who you are.
  - needacig 13y ago
    Why does that matter? EDIT: Oh, do you mean that women should hide the fact that they are women online when contributing to OSS? I imagine many do.
    - redidas 13y ago
      I think what dwild is after is that online identities don't always have a gender attached to them, whether it be intentional or not. If the gender is not apparent, then there's no real way to discriminate is there? This especially goes for HN. I have no idea who is man and who isn't, as most use some sort of username/alias instead of their real name.
      - needacig 13y ago
        If the gender is not apparent, then there is no way to discriminate. I'm not sure what this has to do with the main article though. Many people like to connect their online accounts to their real identity (and thus gender), especially their GitHub accounts. Some don't. Is the suggestion that if women don't want to be discriminated against, they should hide their identities?
    - marquis 13y ago
      Yes, they do. Or use gender-neutral names or non-de-plumes.
  - theorique 13y ago
jmj42 13y ago
You know this makes me sick. Time and time again, articles pop up here on HN talking about some organization trying to promote and encourage women in technology and the comments explode with privileged boys whining about about how "it's not fair" You know what's not fair? A Teacher telling a 12 year old girl that she needs a backup plan because girls getting an engineering degree, well, that's hard. Getting one from MIT, girls just don't do that. With the very next breath telling the boy standing next to the girl that she (the teacher) knows he can get into MIT if he works hard. I'm just sick of it. I'm sick of my little girl coming home crying because some idiot crushed her dream of an engineering degree from MIT because girls don't do that. I'm sick of the privileged idiots here, complaining that women are getting some kind of advantage because they get a free github account. I'm sick of cluelessness. The barriers for women in the workplace are difficult enough, it's worse in tech. The sooner we accept that, and accept that some organizations really are try to make a difference, the better off we'll be. How many times have we read stories about women who are alienated by their peers because their interests align with something that isn't "girlie." Please! I've fought hard to teach my girls that society's barriers are there to be knocked down, that they shouldn't get discouraged and that they can do what ever they want. 18 years later, I'm proud that my oldest has ignored the criticism, the "you can't do that, it's a man's job" BS and is on her way to the Coast Guard where she will train as a rescue swimmer (there's only 7 women rescue swimmers now). I'm proud that my youngest stood up to that teacher and told her: well, perhaps MIT isn't the place for her. After all, MIT engineers ask UIUC engineers for help of the real difficult problems, though MIT will make a fine backup plan. My point is, boys, get over it. I'm sorry you didn't get something for free. Oh wait, you did. You got to be male, a much bigger advantage than a free private github repository. Edit: Spelling/grammer
- cosmez 13y ago
  That last paragraph is exactly the reason i hate this sexist talks, it doesn't matter if its the boys or girls that are complaining.. I don't know if that's the case in the place you are living right now but, if you think that being a boy or a girl its an advantage then you are part of that problem.. Boys will always be boys, ignore them and move on.
rguillebert 13y ago
Why not just create a github account under a nickname ?
- lizzard 13y ago
  We do, and I think the right & ability to work under pseudonymity is very important. But at some point having a career means that people want to hook their identities together. A bunch of the CS students coming into this only have an inkling of the crap they are about to face in the field. Hopefully more of us will stick around to find out all the awesome stuff and will believe in the philosophy and idealism of F/LOSS's potential to make the world better.
sneak 13y ago
The fact that they partnered with the destructive and notorious Ada Initiative is disappointing. They are little more than concern-trolls, and they are doing far more to hinder equality than promote it. GitHub is full of great people and poor choices like this are incongruent. PS: This isn't male privilege speaking - The Ada Initiative is disliked (for very good reason) by feminists of both genders.
- jubalfh 13y ago
  Do substantiate.
  - sneak 13y ago
    They have a history of drama-generation and concern-trolling related to conference organizers and speakers over things that have absolutely nothing to do with womens' rights, equality, or discrimination, which are then dressed up as feminism and used to censor and attack others (who are not participating in discrimination or furthering discriminatory ideas) based on the personal sex-negative agendas of those running the Ada Initiative. http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2013/03/01/stigmatizing-censoring-talk-of-sexuality-in-technology/ http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2013/03/01/stigmatizin...
lizzard 13y ago
I've been answering emails along with other Ada Initiative folks all afternoon!! A lot of women all over the world are very happy and excited to get to try things out on github. The Systers list was so helpful in distributing the link to a diverse worldwide group of women in the field and students just starting out. I think this will have a very positive result and bring many more women into fully contributing to F/LOSS. Since so many times, people in open source projects wonder what they can do to help, and given the incredibly positive response I've seen so far today from women who've read the blog post and who say it is going to help them, I'm feeling hopeful -- and proud to be part of TAI's efforts to contribute. I love supporting anyone's learning, especially in free/open tech and culture, and spend a lot of my time trying to do exactly that. Some of that time, I make sure to focus on supporting other women. Taking the time to support other women is often something that has to be a deliberate act, because it is all too easy to just pay more attention to men, who expect and to some degree demand it, so, I have tried for many years to make that an essential part of my life. Cheers, HN.
- whiterabbit2 13y ago
  REALLY? I'm a subscriber of a few lists for women in tech (Systers included), only one posted the link (followed by no comments). Systers tech talk posted nothing. Systers-dev and -foss, neither. Although, I'm probably subscribed to wrong groups... such as women working in tech (including learners), mostly programming. Not lists for people having problems with programming.
oellegaard 13y ago
1st class gender discrimination. In fact, this would be illegal in many European countries.

74 points by nealyoung 13y ago

sergiotapia 13y ago

Or you know, use BitBucket that offers free private repositories for everyone and anyone.

dsyph3r 13y ago
I think you're missing the point.
- reinhardt 13y ago
  Since "the point" is a PR stunt for a "problem" that has at least one other solution, I don't blame him.
- vampirechicken 13y ago
  I think you're missing segiotapia's point.
- redidas 13y ago
  I think github's missing the point. To encourage a group to do open source we provide them with private repositories? I get how this group may feel hesitant to post something in the open source world, but so was I, and I'm a guy. Here's an analogy that maybe fits: Consider you meet someone that's afraid of flying. Do you say "come with me, I'll show you its safe" or do you say "here's a bunch of train and bus passes"
  - marquis 13y ago
    >come with me, I'll show you its safe That's exactly what's happening. Plus they are paying for the tickets.
  - dsyph3r 13y ago
    Writing code in an open source environment can be extremely intimidating. There is an unfortunate element of elitism around writing code and this can be very off putting for many people. Being able to code, learn, and get criticism in the privacy of a private repository is a big step toward open sourcing your code
    - prodigal_erik 13y ago
      I'm pro-elitism. It seems to me that only the most dedicated and obsessed have even a small chance of ever doing decent work, and I'm all for dissuading everyone else from adding to the mountain of poorly understood and unreliable garbage holding back our profession. I don't think anyone knows how to give (inflict?) that obsession to any child who didn't already have it, but luring the timid into a field at this stage so lacking in rigor is a waste of the useful talents they could offer to other fields.

clintonc 13y ago

I'm actually pretty angry about this. A much better plan would have been to offer free private repositories to any not-for-profit entity. Offering exclusively to women seems, to me, discriminatory. Edit: Reading the article more closely, I'm not as bothered as as I was. Technically, Github granted unlimited private repositories to the Ada organization, who (I suppose) delegates their use to its members. It's not as though you can go to github.com and say, "I'm a woman, give me free private repositories."

qntmfred 13y ago
well since Ada is paying the sponsorship, I guess they can distribute them however they like, yes?
- clintonc 13y ago
  The way I see it, ADA is not paying -- Github is donating. This is, actually, much less incendiary than the headline would lead us to believe...
hnewser1 13y ago
you are angry? lol. how dare they make you angry? take a breathe, turn-off your computer and get out. come back when you grow up.

bencollier49 13y ago

IANAL, but this appears to be a breach of the Equality Act 2010. Are they offering this in the UK?

marquis 13y ago
If you'd like to get your local Scouts group to work on code within the safe measures of private repos, I'm sure you'd also find sponsors. It's not a breach of Equality when you aren't stopping other people from doing something. I'm sure Github would love sponsorship from all over the place. A benefit of this is clever on Ada and Github's part: a lot of women don't participate in code sharing because of reasons that are discussed here enough. So women will get to find each other and work on code together and hey, the world gets software, and Github makes some happy new customers. I, for one, am signing up even though I barely have the time - I'm eager to meet other women coders in a working environment and I'd like to find a small way to pay back the massive debt I have to the open source community.
- pnathan 13y ago
  There is often a disjoint set of expectations between F/LOSS culture and women (besides occasional outright misogyny). Providing a system where women can be eased into the coding experience is, IMO, a very kind thing to do. I visited a church recently and some college students spoke about why they chose that church. Uniformly, the kindness of the church community was a common thread through their comments. It's a human thing: we lean towards people who show kindness to us, especially in forms we can relate to. These bridging activities such as what Github and the Ada Initiative are doing provide a great deal of value in my opinion.
  - theorique 13y ago
    What you say makes a lot of sense. In another comment on this, I mentioned that the leaders of the open source world seem to be famously aggressive, prickly, and concerned only with the truth, not with feelings or being polite [1]. Changing the culture to something "kind", if that is what the community truly wants, will take more than a few donated repos. It will be interesting to see the impact it happens. [1] One of many examples http://www.muktware.com/3703/linus-torvalds-nvidia-fuck-you http://www.muktware.com/3703/linus-torvalds-nvidia-fuck-you

archon 13y ago

> This reluctance has good reasons behind it: fear of being told they are bad programmers, fear of being publicly mocked or harassed, and even fear of losing job opportunities. All of these are greater risks for women on average than men. [Citation needed] Edit, to expand on the kneejerk reaction: I find it difficult to accept the premise that this is a female-only problem. I've been reluctant to post my code before as well, and I'm male. The sometimes ruthless mockery of code isn't confined to code written by females.

marquis 13y ago
For what it's worth, you'd be completely welcome as far as I'm (as a female) concerned. Women don't want to just hang out with women but this is an opportunity for us to get our feet wet in the OS community. As soon as a project is underway with pride, it will become a public repo and I hope you can seek out those communities and work alongside. I just watched The Color Purple last night. It rings true in me because it's not that people aren't free - it's the constant, constant underlying of fear from all sides. If you have fear as a man then women don't want that either - you should be proud and comfortable as only fear begets fear.
steveklabnik 13y ago
> I find it difficult to accept the premise that this is a female-only problem. It doesn't need to be a woman-only problem. It just needs to affect women disproportionately. Scratch that, it doesn't need to be _anything_. Giving free repos to _anyone_ does no harm to anyone who's not getting them, so the only thing this does is help a group of people. Now, you may argue that GitHub should be helping a specific group of people over another one, but they've chosen to help who they've chosen to help.
- archon 13y ago
  Yeah, I could have worded my objection better. I'm not doubting that the rather brutal nature of OSS is a problem for both men and women. I'm just skeptical that it affects women disproportionately. If you say "getting your code ripped to shreds in public sucks," I'd wholeheartedly agree with you. If you say "getting your code ripped to shreds in public as a woman sucks more," that's where I get skeptical. And if that's the case, why is it a bigger problem for women? Note that I'm not arguing against GitHub giving private repos to whomever they please. They can sponsor who they like. I was just looking for some explanation of that "women are more affected by this than men" claim.

tedchs 13y ago

FWIW, it seems like this will not give you private repos under your own Github Account, but just a private repo under the Github "organization" for the Ada Initiative.

jcoder 13y ago

I can't believe the whining comments here so far. GitHub can contribute to any organization it wants to.

pifflesnort 13y ago
People are also free to criticize Github for any reason they want to. Personally, I think the Ada Initiative is doing far more harm than good. They're pushing a strange brand of coddling and gender privilege.
- marquis 13y ago
  It's fine you think that. I think that hundreds of girls don't really care about that initial help, will get some seriously good programming done, release some fantastic code and not read your comment at all except with a passing glance at someone who feels slighted for something that doesn't affect him at all.
  - pifflesnort 13y ago
    > ... except with a passing glance at someone who feels slighted for something that doesn't affect him at all. If the Ada Initiative didn't affect the rest of the industry at all, then they wouldn't be considered effective at their mission. Whether or not you agree with the way they approach their mission is another question.
    - marquis 13y ago
      Is this a zero sum game? Are there only 1000 jobs ever in the world and men are worried for their positions?
reinhardt 13y ago
True. At the same time if GitHub (or anyone else) dared contribute to an organization promoting, say, men's right's, you'd never hear the end of it.

manacit 13y ago

I get five free private repos for being a university student (for as long as I'm a student) - I don't see why we can't just extend something like this to people who are learning how to program / use github, and not just women/students

steveklabnik 13y ago
They could, but they're not. Obviously they have a reason to do so, are you aware of what that is and why they might choose that reason?
lizzard 13y ago
That's great, and maybe you have student groups too that will be supportive and in which you will develop a useful network of peers and mentors!

visualcsharp 13y ago

I'm pretty surprised to see this. What about men who are just starting out with learning to code and don't want their scratch-space projects visible to everyone (and potentially archived for all time)? Using demographics is the wrong approach; instead, GitHub should use one's ability to pay as a baseline (non-profit companies, individual developers, etc.)

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

rounak 13y ago

Private repository for learning open source software. Makes perfect sense.

woah 13y ago

IANAW, but this almost seems sexist in and of itself. Is Github shielding the delicate female programmers from the merciless wrath of internet trolls? I guess the assumption is that big strong male programmers don't need this kind of coddling.

marquis 13y ago
This reply is exactly why this initiative is needed. Can't you just say 'hey, more people contributing to open source!'
- dcope 13y ago
  How is pushing code to a private repository 'contributing to open source'?
  - marquis 13y ago
    I expect that if a significant portion of work was done to an existing fork, or a significant bug found, it would be celebrated and immediately pushed back to the community. It would be exactly the same as if I downloaded Linux, made some awesome changes then sat on it and just shared it with my friends. A ridiculous thought.
  - jcoder 13y ago
    They're learning together and need collaboration tools.
  - bryanlarsen 13y ago
    This makes it easier for people to clean up their code before letting the world see it. I wouldn't be surprised if it made some people more willing to contribute.
- SeanDav 13y ago
  I doubt you would have felt the same way if Github had announced they were making free repositories available, but only to male developers...

Voidkom 13y ago

For those crying sexism, go take a look at the amount of women in the business, now THAT's what sexism looks like.

bdg 13y ago
You haven't demonstrated sexism, simply numbers. This is like saying child and youth workers (or any other female dominated roll) is sexist towards men.
byroot 13y ago
Go take a look at the amount of men in the business of midwifing, it's even worse. Is there anything that prevent a men to work in this field ? I know a guy who did, so I can tell you: Nothing. If we lack of women in CS it's mostly because women themselves thinks it's not attractive, just like they don't see trucker, or construction worker as attractive jobs. For the same reason teaching, widwifing, etc lack of mens. IHMO: It's the culture that drive the inbalance in a given field, and the inbalance that create some macho mens, not the other way.
- ddagradi 13y ago
  GitHub is not a company involved in the business of midwifing. They are a company involved in the business of software development. Is it not possible that the cultural imbalance in all of these fields is due to sexism?
- marquis 13y ago
  Nursing and other non-doctoral programs work hard to increase the numbers of men. It is never seen as reverse sexism in these cases.
biot 13y ago
Similar to how companies used to advertise job openings seeking a "girl Friday" for secretarial work. It sure was tough cracking the sexist, women-dominated secretary industry.
Posibyte 13y ago

Nux 13y ago

I can give private repos, too. Now put me on HN first page!

anoncow 13y ago

How do female programmers differ from male programmers? I find this offensive. There are better ways to help promote programming among women. Equal salaries for starters could be a real equaliser.

eridius 13y ago
Yes, I too am offended that an organization would dare donate anything to the Ada Initiative. Since we obviously live in a post-sexist egalitarian society, any sort of donation to one organization is clearly discriminatory against those not part of or benefitting from the organization! </sarcasm> I'm pretty damn sure GitHub can't affect the salaries of women that aren't direct employees of them. In what way does GitHub doing what it can do, which is donate to an organization like the Ada Initiative, cause offense?
- juridatenshi 13y ago
  Agreed with you about the donations. Tangentially, it would be cool if GitHub had more diversity in their software engineering staff - that is something they have control over.
  - marquis 13y ago
    A really good way to increase the diversity of your staff is to encourage education for minority groups.
    - juridatenshi 13y ago
      Definitely. I'm excited they're doing this, and I think it is useful. :) The comment about hiring was mostly an aside as something else I wish they were taking more active efforts with in addition to efforts like this one.
- anoncow 13y ago
  On second thoughts, my comment was over the top. Doing something is better than nothing and github is doing something. So kudos to that.

caiob 13y ago

Why?

marquis 13y ago
From the article: "In working with women in open source, the Ada Initiative found that many women are reluctant to post their code publicly when they are first getting started in open source software. This reluctance has good reasons behind it: fear of being told they are bad programmers, fear of being publicly mocked or harassed, and even fear of losing job opportunities. All of these are greater risks for women on average than men. But the best way to get better at programming is to collaborate with and get review from other programmers, which is far easier to do with a shared repository like those provided by GitHub. Unfortunately, private repositories are too expensive for most women just getting started in open source software."
- theorique 13y ago
  Unfortunately, private repositories are too expensive for most women just getting started in open source software. If $7-12 / month (github's two lowest cost paid plans) is 'too expensive' for a person getting started in open source software, that person might want to rethink how interested and/or committed they actually are. It's fine if Ada / github want to give female programmers a leg up to accomplish some social goal. But don't pretend it's due to some insurmountable financial cost.
  - marquis 13y ago
    I didn't write the article, but I agree with the premise. Women earn less, have children who come first. If you have small kids at home the best possible job is programming but you don't have a credit card or saving up for the winter power bill comes first.
    - theorique 13y ago
      Fair point. Although it would seem in that case like time or social connection are bigger barriers. I guess people and orgs will do what they can.

seivan 13y ago

What about LGBTQ, what about transgendered? Does this only apply to cis-females? So if this is a demographic Github wants to see an increase in, does this mean they don't care enough about others?

blocking_io 13y ago
Your concern trolling would be much more effective if you read the linked article.
alxp 13y ago
An advocacy group for other minorities in tech probably just got a great idea of something they can lobby for themselves, and are very thankful to the Ada Initiative for the idea.

mindcrime 13y ago

All in all, I think (well, hope) this is a Good Thing. To the extent that (some?) women face different (or more severe) problems in getting started in programming and contributing to F/OSS projects, if this helps ease that process, then it's a win for the world. Now, I can understand some of the reactions, from both men and women. On the one hand, I can see why guys might say "isn't this just a different form of sexism?" and I can see how even some women might be offended (the same kind of women who freak out if a man holds a door open for them, probably). But despite all that, this has a chance to get more people involved in, and contributing to, the F/OSS world. For that, I think we can accept a small measure of "reverse sexism", given the context, and I think the radfem types can like it or leave it, while their female peers are busy writing code. Yeah, it would be nice to live in a world which is more or less totally gender-blind, but we're not there yet and this move may at least help level the playing field a little bit.

lawnchair_larry 13y ago

I'm really starting to wonder if The Ada Initiative is making more enemies than progress. Are they trying to promote equality, or female privilege?

bobsicle 13y ago

I'm a paying github user, and I love github but I can't believe github allowed this. Firstly they are not helping open source if the code is private and secondly it should be for everyone. We hear a lot of people women nowadays complain about inequality and shit, if they are honest they should know this is utterly wrong and should do something to change it, else it's a bit hypocritical. no?

SeoxyS 13y ago

I fully support GitHub's right to do whatever they want, but I can't help but find this slightly distasteful. This is affirmative action, which I disagree with in principle.

needacig 13y ago

To those saying, "Why is this necessary? This isn't fair!", Well, here's your answer: http://xkcd.com/385/ http://xkcd.com/385/ (XKCD nailed it, as usual.)

dwild 13y ago
And here's my answer: Are you a girl? We are on the internet, I can't see you, I have no idea who you are.
- needacig 13y ago
  Why does that matter? EDIT: Oh, do you mean that women should hide the fact that they are women online when contributing to OSS? I imagine many do.
  - redidas 13y ago
    I think what dwild is after is that online identities don't always have a gender attached to them, whether it be intentional or not. If the gender is not apparent, then there's no real way to discriminate is there? This especially goes for HN. I have no idea who is man and who isn't, as most use some sort of username/alias instead of their real name.
    - needacig 13y ago
      If the gender is not apparent, then there is no way to discriminate. I'm not sure what this has to do with the main article though. Many people like to connect their online accounts to their real identity (and thus gender), especially their GitHub accounts. Some don't. Is the suggestion that if women don't want to be discriminated against, they should hide their identities?
  - marquis 13y ago
    Yes, they do. Or use gender-neutral names or non-de-plumes.
- theorique 13y ago

jmj42 13y ago

You know this makes me sick. Time and time again, articles pop up here on HN talking about some organization trying to promote and encourage women in technology and the comments explode with privileged boys whining about about how "it's not fair" You know what's not fair? A Teacher telling a 12 year old girl that she needs a backup plan because girls getting an engineering degree, well, that's hard. Getting one from MIT, girls just don't do that. With the very next breath telling the boy standing next to the girl that she (the teacher) knows he can get into MIT if he works hard. I'm just sick of it. I'm sick of my little girl coming home crying because some idiot crushed her dream of an engineering degree from MIT because girls don't do that. I'm sick of the privileged idiots here, complaining that women are getting some kind of advantage because they get a free github account. I'm sick of cluelessness. The barriers for women in the workplace are difficult enough, it's worse in tech. The sooner we accept that, and accept that some organizations really are try to make a difference, the better off we'll be. How many times have we read stories about women who are alienated by their peers because their interests align with something that isn't "girlie." Please! I've fought hard to teach my girls that society's barriers are there to be knocked down, that they shouldn't get discouraged and that they can do what ever they want. 18 years later, I'm proud that my oldest has ignored the criticism, the "you can't do that, it's a man's job" BS and is on her way to the Coast Guard where she will train as a rescue swimmer (there's only 7 women rescue swimmers now). I'm proud that my youngest stood up to that teacher and told her: well, perhaps MIT isn't the place for her. After all, MIT engineers ask UIUC engineers for help of the real difficult problems, though MIT will make a fine backup plan. My point is, boys, get over it. I'm sorry you didn't get something for free. Oh wait, you did. You got to be male, a much bigger advantage than a free private github repository. Edit: Spelling/grammer

cosmez 13y ago
That last paragraph is exactly the reason i hate this sexist talks, it doesn't matter if its the boys or girls that are complaining.. I don't know if that's the case in the place you are living right now but, if you think that being a boy or a girl its an advantage then you are part of that problem.. Boys will always be boys, ignore them and move on.

rguillebert 13y ago

Why not just create a github account under a nickname ?

lizzard 13y ago
We do, and I think the right & ability to work under pseudonymity is very important. But at some point having a career means that people want to hook their identities together. A bunch of the CS students coming into this only have an inkling of the crap they are about to face in the field. Hopefully more of us will stick around to find out all the awesome stuff and will believe in the philosophy and idealism of F/LOSS's potential to make the world better.

sneak 13y ago

The fact that they partnered with the destructive and notorious Ada Initiative is disappointing. They are little more than concern-trolls, and they are doing far more to hinder equality than promote it. GitHub is full of great people and poor choices like this are incongruent. PS: This isn't male privilege speaking - The Ada Initiative is disliked (for very good reason) by feminists of both genders.

jubalfh 13y ago
Do substantiate.
- sneak 13y ago
  They have a history of drama-generation and concern-trolling related to conference organizers and speakers over things that have absolutely nothing to do with womens' rights, equality, or discrimination, which are then dressed up as feminism and used to censor and attack others (who are not participating in discrimination or furthering discriminatory ideas) based on the personal sex-negative agendas of those running the Ada Initiative. http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2013/03/01/stigmatizing-censoring-talk-of-sexuality-in-technology/ http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2013/03/01/stigmatizin...

lizzard 13y ago

I've been answering emails along with other Ada Initiative folks all afternoon!! A lot of women all over the world are very happy and excited to get to try things out on github. The Systers list was so helpful in distributing the link to a diverse worldwide group of women in the field and students just starting out. I think this will have a very positive result and bring many more women into fully contributing to F/LOSS. Since so many times, people in open source projects wonder what they can do to help, and given the incredibly positive response I've seen so far today from women who've read the blog post and who say it is going to help them, I'm feeling hopeful -- and proud to be part of TAI's efforts to contribute. I love supporting anyone's learning, especially in free/open tech and culture, and spend a lot of my time trying to do exactly that. Some of that time, I make sure to focus on supporting other women. Taking the time to support other women is often something that has to be a deliberate act, because it is all too easy to just pay more attention to men, who expect and to some degree demand it, so, I have tried for many years to make that an essential part of my life. Cheers, HN.

whiterabbit2 13y ago
REALLY? I'm a subscriber of a few lists for women in tech (Systers included), only one posted the link (followed by no comments). Systers tech talk posted nothing. Systers-dev and -foss, neither. Although, I'm probably subscribed to wrong groups... such as women working in tech (including learners), mostly programming. Not lists for people having problems with programming.

oellegaard 13y ago

1st class gender discrimination. In fact, this would be illegal in many European countries.