11 ms·

Killer escaped prison after being issued picture of master key

233 points by emhart 13y ago

lutusp 13y ago
So much for the myth of the stupid criminal being kept in jail by smart authorities.
xntrk 13y ago
The couldn't have possibly used someones house keys? lol
betterunix 13y ago
Hm...where have I heard this story before... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management
edward 13y ago
"The Prison Service has been forced to spend £250,000 on changing every lock and key in Feltham young offenders' institution after a TV news crew filmed a prison key during a media visit last week." http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2006/jul/05/broadcasting.youthjustice http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2006/jul/05/broadcasting.you...
- JonnieCache 13y ago
  Diebold voting machine key copied from photo at company's own online store http://www.bradblog.com/?p=4066#more-4066 http://www.bradblog.com/?p=4066#more-4066
Drakim 13y ago
People need to realize that the shape of your key is pretty much a "password". Letting your keys lay on a table in open view is akin to leaving a piece of paper with your password out in open view.
- pixelcort 13y ago
  With 3D printing coming mainstream in the next decade, combined with high resolution cameras being common on smartphones, it's going to be important to start hiding the teeth of keys.
  - emhart 13y ago
    Already here: http://eclecti.cc/hardware/physical-keygen-now-for-disc-detainer-locks http://eclecti.cc/hardware/physical-keygen-now-for-disc-deta... Even higher security locks can be pretty readily replicated.
  - viraptor 13y ago
    This could be made much harder both for accidentally seeing the code and for copying if the usual keys got inverted. As in - make them round pipes like the gerda ones, but with holes on the inside instead of outside. Not only would a photo of it be useless, they'd be also much harder to print (still fairly easy to cut though, but you'd have a hard time doing it manually - it would have to be done by a machine precisely measuring the movements in most cases).
  - hashmymustache 13y ago
    This is why keys need foreskin
    - umsm 13y ago
      Key condoms!
      - navs 13y ago
        Safety is no joke.
    - eksith 13y ago
      Most new prison keys have this feature, I think. It's some sort of retractable sheath of sorts that hides the profile of the teeth. And some high-security keys don't have teeth at all. They have dimples of varying depth on the side of the key serving the same function instead. These don't jot out and are very hard to copy even photographically.
bentcorner 13y ago
> "Those keys were a dead-set copy of the keys that we had. The key he copied was in the shape of a figure E, which was the master key." > The officer said it was Heiss's fellow inmate - fellow murderer Shane Baker - who made the key. He said Baker was a jeweller who had jewellery-making equipment in his cell, and used this to work on the key. This has "I don't know what I expected" written all over it
losethos 13y ago
God says... Jonathan was taken. 14:43 Then Saul said to Jonathan, Tell me what thou hast done. And Jonathan told him, and said, I did but taste a little honey with the end of the rod that was in mine hand, and, lo, I must die. 14:44 And Saul answered, God do so and more also: for thou shalt surely die, Jonathan. 14:45 And the people said unto Saul, Shall Jonathan die, who hath wrought this great salvation in Israel? God forbid: as the LORD liveth, there shall not one hair of his head fall to the ground; for he hath wrought with God this day. So the people rescued Jonathan, that he died not. 14:46 Then Saul went up from following the Philistines: and the Philistines went to their own place. 14:47 So Saul took the kingdom over Israel, and fought against all his enemies on every side, against Moab, and against the children of Ammon, and against Edom, and against the kings of Zobah, and against the Philistines: and whithersoever he turned himself, he vexed them. ----- Can you pick locks with honey on a toof pick? ---- God is perfectly just, doctors. I'm laughing at you. God says... livest Creusa's five don't_count_on_it lingered audaciously zealously reproach though June distinguished Ivy_league fig what's_the_plan displeaseth Law mazes dreams weep hogs distinguish zeal say desperate saints healthy Rome amazed punishment- lion heresies scoffing Babylon valuable 95 Maker glittering now_that_I_think_about_it everlasting shod fee unarranged repent et_tu gradation seductions projected changeable ardently horrendous creatures chewing sentence angels
afreak 13y ago
Reminds me of a story about the MTA and their master keys being exposed: http://www.renderlab.net/advisories/mta-key/ http://www.renderlab.net/advisories/mta-key/
gcb0 13y ago
People whose work depends on keys doesn't know their basics working... If there was a computer and a password printed on those booklets it would have spurred new silly internet laws.
swang 13y ago
I remember there was some graduate study done at UCSD where they took a picture of a key from afar, and using a computer, be able to create the exact key that accounted for the angle the picture was shot out. Does anyone remember an article like that?
- prawks 13y ago
  A few comments up from here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5613791 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5613791
aashaykumar92 13y ago
This article made me realize that the whole concept of keys is something that needs to be looked into quite a bit with the rise in 3D printing technology. With an excellent 3D printer, one would hypothetically be able to take a picture of keys and be able to print a copy of them.
- emhart 13y ago
  competent attackers have been able to sight-read & reproduce keys for literal millennia. What needs to be evaluated is user behavior regarding keys.
  - jonknee 13y ago
    > What needs to be evaluated is user behavior regarding keys. Or just smarter keys like cars have these days (which have pretty much stopped non flat-bed car theft).
    - RobertHoudin 13y ago
      I know practically nothing about the smarter keys that cars have these days. Could you please elaborate? I'm intrigued.
      - emiliobumachar 13y ago
        I don't have any inside knowledge, but presumably the keys and car exchange messages and do some crypto signing. For example, the car makes up and sends a random string, the key signs it and sends it back.
  - TheCowboy 13y ago
    I think you'll have better luck adapting lock technology to user behavior than changing every user's behavior. Good password selection thinking should be commonsense by now to people who post here, but it seems like there's still a lot of work to be done educating the general (less geeky) public.
- 13y ago
fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
Here is a typical TDCJ key for reference, These are available on Ebay BTW. http://thumbs3.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mir8l4p7ugK0Tt6QMd5Daog.jpg http://thumbs3.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mir8l4p7ugK0Tt6QMd5Da...
shaddyz 13y ago
I had a hard time understanding the article. Can someone explain why putting an image of the prison's master key on an inmate pamphlet makes any sense? Someone went through the trouble of putting that exact key on the cover--it wasn't coincidental. Did the designer think it was a way of teasing the inmates with the key to their freedom?
- hugbox 13y ago
  They did it for the lulz. Unfortunately, the lulz were on them.
- unreal37 13y ago
  This is a good point. No one seems to be able to answer why that picture was taken and then chosen as the cover of the welcome to prison booklet. I bet somebody originally wanted an aerial shot of the prison, but someone else wisely objected because that would be bad security move - giving prisoners a map of the area...
  - mikeash 13y ago
    At first blush, I think one could easily have the attitude that a picture of a key is no more dangerous than a picture of a gun. The vulnerability is clear but not completely obvious. Especially when prisoners can also see the real keys, as guards no doubt have to use them near prisoners from time to time.
    - lostlogin 13y ago
      Given the description of the key looking like an E, the picture could have been an image of an ancient old key and the actual key was an ancient old key. Old locks with that E style shape are very easy to open due to being so warn. We used to pick them at school using modified spoons and such like. I'd hope the prison wasn't like this though.
ttrreeww 13y ago
Looks like one of them is released in 2011! http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/infamous-nt-killer-daniel-lothar-heiss-to-be-released/story-e6frf7jx-1226084937278 http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/infamous-nt-k...
downandout 13y ago
I heard about a similar incident in the Santa Clara county jail. In that case, the inmate, ironically facing a federal counterfeiting currency charge, managed to make a skeleton key to the jail by cutting plastic from a jail-supplied Rubbermaid bin that was supposed to be used for storing personal property. The inmate got the general shape of the key by looking at it as guards passed by, then perfected it over a period of weeks by sticking it in the lock and attempting to turn it. The lock made marks on the plastic where the teeth were supposed to go. The inmate was caught and all plastic bins removed from the jail after the key was finally good enough to open the lock, which set off an alarm.
- pestaa 13y ago
  Why did the alarm was set off? Do these locks work only with a key that passes through electricity or have some other built-in secondary check? Really curious.
  - downandout 13y ago
    Apparently there are parts of the Santa Clara County jail that are very old. This occurred in a dorm-style housing unit, and the key he made opened a stairwell door (the door to the stairwell being inside the housing unit, which is how he was able to repeatedly test without scrutiny). The door was alarmed and went off when it opened. Most modern jails don't use skeleton-style keys, and the doors are opened and closed electronically, but the part of the jail he was in was decades old.
    - jamornh 13y ago
      I think he was asking that if the guards can use a key to get through without setting off an alarm, why did this guy's key set the alarm off?
      - downandout 13y ago
        I'm not entirely sure, but I think that the door was not ordinarily used by anyone, something akin to the jail version of a fire exit. I believe it was set to alarm regardless of who opened it, but if an authorized person opened it, presumably they would let whomever receives the alarms know about it in advance and not send in an army of officers.
codeulike 13y ago
Bear in mind: It was over 20 years ago, and they caught him again with 12 days.
jasoncartwright 13y ago
Reminds me of this... http://boingboing.net/2007/01/25/diebold-voting-machi.html http://boingboing.net/2007/01/25/diebold-voting-machi.html "someone has made a copy of the key which opens ALL Diebold e-voting machines from a picture on the company's own website"
hiroprot 13y ago
So, they essentially handed each inmate a key to their freedom (in the form of the handbook) upon arrival? Am I the only one who thinks that's somewhat philosophical? :)
px43 13y ago
Reminds me of this story: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/01/daniel-ferraris-new-york-master-keys_n_1928826.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/01/daniel-ferraris-new...
loceng 13y ago
Security 101? :)
mark_lee 13y ago
Is this an example that a man can be smart and stupid at the same time? paid a lot of effort to get out for 12 days , then got several more years in jail for that,maybe,wow.
hexonexxon 13y ago
People often sell master keys on ebay and other sites and upload photos of the key. http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2012/10/master_keys.html http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2012/10/master_keys.ht...

233 points by emhart 13y ago

lutusp 13y ago

So much for the myth of the stupid criminal being kept in jail by smart authorities.

xntrk 13y ago

The couldn't have possibly used someones house keys? lol

betterunix 13y ago

Hm...where have I heard this story before... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management

edward 13y ago

"The Prison Service has been forced to spend £250,000 on changing every lock and key in Feltham young offenders' institution after a TV news crew filmed a prison key during a media visit last week." http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2006/jul/05/broadcasting.youthjustice http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2006/jul/05/broadcasting.you...

JonnieCache 13y ago
Diebold voting machine key copied from photo at company's own online store http://www.bradblog.com/?p=4066#more-4066 http://www.bradblog.com/?p=4066#more-4066

Drakim 13y ago

People need to realize that the shape of your key is pretty much a "password". Letting your keys lay on a table in open view is akin to leaving a piece of paper with your password out in open view.

pixelcort 13y ago
With 3D printing coming mainstream in the next decade, combined with high resolution cameras being common on smartphones, it's going to be important to start hiding the teeth of keys.
- emhart 13y ago
  Already here: http://eclecti.cc/hardware/physical-keygen-now-for-disc-detainer-locks http://eclecti.cc/hardware/physical-keygen-now-for-disc-deta... Even higher security locks can be pretty readily replicated.
- viraptor 13y ago
  This could be made much harder both for accidentally seeing the code and for copying if the usual keys got inverted. As in - make them round pipes like the gerda ones, but with holes on the inside instead of outside. Not only would a photo of it be useless, they'd be also much harder to print (still fairly easy to cut though, but you'd have a hard time doing it manually - it would have to be done by a machine precisely measuring the movements in most cases).
- hashmymustache 13y ago
  This is why keys need foreskin
  - umsm 13y ago
    Key condoms!
    - navs 13y ago
      Safety is no joke.
  - eksith 13y ago
    Most new prison keys have this feature, I think. It's some sort of retractable sheath of sorts that hides the profile of the teeth. And some high-security keys don't have teeth at all. They have dimples of varying depth on the side of the key serving the same function instead. These don't jot out and are very hard to copy even photographically.

bentcorner 13y ago

> "Those keys were a dead-set copy of the keys that we had. The key he copied was in the shape of a figure E, which was the master key." > The officer said it was Heiss's fellow inmate - fellow murderer Shane Baker - who made the key. He said Baker was a jeweller who had jewellery-making equipment in his cell, and used this to work on the key. This has "I don't know what I expected" written all over it

losethos 13y ago

God says... Jonathan was taken. 14:43 Then Saul said to Jonathan, Tell me what thou hast done. And Jonathan told him, and said, I did but taste a little honey with the end of the rod that was in mine hand, and, lo, I must die. 14:44 And Saul answered, God do so and more also: for thou shalt surely die, Jonathan. 14:45 And the people said unto Saul, Shall Jonathan die, who hath wrought this great salvation in Israel? God forbid: as the LORD liveth, there shall not one hair of his head fall to the ground; for he hath wrought with God this day. So the people rescued Jonathan, that he died not. 14:46 Then Saul went up from following the Philistines: and the Philistines went to their own place. 14:47 So Saul took the kingdom over Israel, and fought against all his enemies on every side, against Moab, and against the children of Ammon, and against Edom, and against the kings of Zobah, and against the Philistines: and whithersoever he turned himself, he vexed them. ----- Can you pick locks with honey on a toof pick? ---- God is perfectly just, doctors. I'm laughing at you. God says... livest Creusa's five don't_count_on_it lingered audaciously zealously reproach though June distinguished Ivy_league fig what's_the_plan displeaseth Law mazes dreams weep hogs distinguish zeal say desperate saints healthy Rome amazed punishment- lion heresies scoffing Babylon valuable 95 Maker glittering now_that_I_think_about_it everlasting shod fee unarranged repent et_tu gradation seductions projected changeable ardently horrendous creatures chewing sentence angels

afreak 13y ago

Reminds me of a story about the MTA and their master keys being exposed: http://www.renderlab.net/advisories/mta-key/ http://www.renderlab.net/advisories/mta-key/

gcb0 13y ago

People whose work depends on keys doesn't know their basics working... If there was a computer and a password printed on those booklets it would have spurred new silly internet laws.

swang 13y ago

I remember there was some graduate study done at UCSD where they took a picture of a key from afar, and using a computer, be able to create the exact key that accounted for the angle the picture was shot out. Does anyone remember an article like that?

prawks 13y ago
A few comments up from here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5613791 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5613791

aashaykumar92 13y ago

This article made me realize that the whole concept of keys is something that needs to be looked into quite a bit with the rise in 3D printing technology. With an excellent 3D printer, one would hypothetically be able to take a picture of keys and be able to print a copy of them.

emhart 13y ago
competent attackers have been able to sight-read & reproduce keys for literal millennia. What needs to be evaluated is user behavior regarding keys.
- jonknee 13y ago
  > What needs to be evaluated is user behavior regarding keys. Or just smarter keys like cars have these days (which have pretty much stopped non flat-bed car theft).
  - RobertHoudin 13y ago
    I know practically nothing about the smarter keys that cars have these days. Could you please elaborate? I'm intrigued.
    - emiliobumachar 13y ago
      I don't have any inside knowledge, but presumably the keys and car exchange messages and do some crypto signing. For example, the car makes up and sends a random string, the key signs it and sends it back.
- TheCowboy 13y ago
  I think you'll have better luck adapting lock technology to user behavior than changing every user's behavior. Good password selection thinking should be commonsense by now to people who post here, but it seems like there's still a lot of work to be done educating the general (less geeky) public.
13y ago

fnordfnordfnord 13y ago

Here is a typical TDCJ key for reference, These are available on Ebay BTW. http://thumbs3.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mir8l4p7ugK0Tt6QMd5Daog.jpg http://thumbs3.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mir8l4p7ugK0Tt6QMd5Da...

shaddyz 13y ago

I had a hard time understanding the article. Can someone explain why putting an image of the prison's master key on an inmate pamphlet makes any sense? Someone went through the trouble of putting that exact key on the cover--it wasn't coincidental. Did the designer think it was a way of teasing the inmates with the key to their freedom?

hugbox 13y ago
They did it for the lulz. Unfortunately, the lulz were on them.
unreal37 13y ago
This is a good point. No one seems to be able to answer why that picture was taken and then chosen as the cover of the welcome to prison booklet. I bet somebody originally wanted an aerial shot of the prison, but someone else wisely objected because that would be bad security move - giving prisoners a map of the area...
- mikeash 13y ago
  At first blush, I think one could easily have the attitude that a picture of a key is no more dangerous than a picture of a gun. The vulnerability is clear but not completely obvious. Especially when prisoners can also see the real keys, as guards no doubt have to use them near prisoners from time to time.
  - lostlogin 13y ago
    Given the description of the key looking like an E, the picture could have been an image of an ancient old key and the actual key was an ancient old key. Old locks with that E style shape are very easy to open due to being so warn. We used to pick them at school using modified spoons and such like. I'd hope the prison wasn't like this though.

ttrreeww 13y ago

Looks like one of them is released in 2011! http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/infamous-nt-killer-daniel-lothar-heiss-to-be-released/story-e6frf7jx-1226084937278 http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/infamous-nt-k...

downandout 13y ago

I heard about a similar incident in the Santa Clara county jail. In that case, the inmate, ironically facing a federal counterfeiting currency charge, managed to make a skeleton key to the jail by cutting plastic from a jail-supplied Rubbermaid bin that was supposed to be used for storing personal property. The inmate got the general shape of the key by looking at it as guards passed by, then perfected it over a period of weeks by sticking it in the lock and attempting to turn it. The lock made marks on the plastic where the teeth were supposed to go. The inmate was caught and all plastic bins removed from the jail after the key was finally good enough to open the lock, which set off an alarm.

pestaa 13y ago
Why did the alarm was set off? Do these locks work only with a key that passes through electricity or have some other built-in secondary check? Really curious.
- downandout 13y ago
  Apparently there are parts of the Santa Clara County jail that are very old. This occurred in a dorm-style housing unit, and the key he made opened a stairwell door (the door to the stairwell being inside the housing unit, which is how he was able to repeatedly test without scrutiny). The door was alarmed and went off when it opened. Most modern jails don't use skeleton-style keys, and the doors are opened and closed electronically, but the part of the jail he was in was decades old.
  - jamornh 13y ago
    I think he was asking that if the guards can use a key to get through without setting off an alarm, why did this guy's key set the alarm off?
    - downandout 13y ago
      I'm not entirely sure, but I think that the door was not ordinarily used by anyone, something akin to the jail version of a fire exit. I believe it was set to alarm regardless of who opened it, but if an authorized person opened it, presumably they would let whomever receives the alarms know about it in advance and not send in an army of officers.

codeulike 13y ago

Bear in mind: It was over 20 years ago, and they caught him again with 12 days.

jasoncartwright 13y ago

Reminds me of this... http://boingboing.net/2007/01/25/diebold-voting-machi.html http://boingboing.net/2007/01/25/diebold-voting-machi.html "someone has made a copy of the key which opens ALL Diebold e-voting machines from a picture on the company's own website"

hiroprot 13y ago

So, they essentially handed each inmate a key to their freedom (in the form of the handbook) upon arrival? Am I the only one who thinks that's somewhat philosophical? :)

px43 13y ago

Reminds me of this story: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/01/daniel-ferraris-new-york-master-keys_n_1928826.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/01/daniel-ferraris-new...

loceng 13y ago

Security 101? :)

mark_lee 13y ago

Is this an example that a man can be smart and stupid at the same time? paid a lot of effort to get out for 12 days , then got several more years in jail for that,maybe,wow.

hexonexxon 13y ago

People often sell master keys on ebay and other sites and upload photos of the key. http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2012/10/master_keys.html http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2012/10/master_keys.ht...