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I absolutely despise the term "developer". It insinuates that we, hackers, write code because we want to "develop," not because it's a fun hobby or because we w

by kunai 14y ago

I absolutely despise the term "developer". It insinuates that we, hackers, write code because we want to "develop," not because it's a fun hobby or because we want to find practical solutions to everyday problems. As pg put it, "'Engineer' is a kind of bureaucratic term that companies use to refer to a programmer. 'Developer' is a slightly less bureaucratic term that companies use to refer to a programmer."

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pfortuny 14y ago
If pg has a problem with the term 'Engineer' then he's got a problem with its meaning (which stems from 'problem solving' essentially). I'd rather be called an engineer (an ingenious person) than a 'hacker' (whatever this means).
- bane 14y ago
  Could part of the problem be that adding an "engineer" to a title is also used as a pseudo-euphemism for low ranked workers? e.g. maintenance engineer = janitor
  - pfortuny 14y ago
    Well, yes, if "maintenance enginner" means janitor then obviously there is a bureaucratic problem.
- jjtheblunt 14y ago
  Agreed.
podperson 14y ago
If it were called the Apple Hackers' Conference you'd be complaining that Apple was trying to be hip. It's been called "Developers'" conference for as long as I can remember (which is at least as long as there's been a Mac), Apple's in-house magazine for people developing/hacking/programming/whatever was called "develop" until the idea of a magazine was moot. Apple called "programs" "applications" starting with the Mac and stuck to it. It's just a word -- get over it.
- stcredzero 14y ago
  > If it were called the Apple Hackers' Conference you'd be complaining that Apple was trying to be hip. Maybe there should be an Apple hackers conference for those of us who couldn't get tickets.
  - Someone 14y ago
    Bring back http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacHack http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacHack
  - podperson 14y ago
    There used to be -- Mac Hack.
threeseed 14y ago
Actually an Engineer should be reserved for those who actually have an Engineering degree. It is a professional designation akin to a Doctor, Lawyer etc.
- protomyth 14y ago
  In many states, it is reserved for someone with a certificate and there are very strict rules on the words use.
dionidium 14y ago
I never know whether to call myself a programmer, engineer, or developer. I think the reason for this is that it doesn't matter one bit and who gives a shit?
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nicholassmith 14y ago
We're hackers when we aren't developers. Developer means developing a system, hacker implies grinding a result. Sometimes.
mikeash 14y ago
"Engineer" is definitely not a "bureaucratic term". It's an honorable title. The only reason I'm mildly uncomfortable with it is because I don't think I really deserve it, as programming, at least of the sort I do, doesn't match the level of rigor I associate with "engineering".
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by kunai 14y ago

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pfortuny 14y ago

If pg has a problem with the term 'Engineer' then he's got a problem with its meaning (which stems from 'problem solving' essentially). I'd rather be called an engineer (an ingenious person) than a 'hacker' (whatever this means).

bane 14y ago
Could part of the problem be that adding an "engineer" to a title is also used as a pseudo-euphemism for low ranked workers? e.g. maintenance engineer = janitor
- pfortuny 14y ago
  Well, yes, if "maintenance enginner" means janitor then obviously there is a bureaucratic problem.
jjtheblunt 14y ago
Agreed.

podperson 14y ago

If it were called the Apple Hackers' Conference you'd be complaining that Apple was trying to be hip. It's been called "Developers'" conference for as long as I can remember (which is at least as long as there's been a Mac), Apple's in-house magazine for people developing/hacking/programming/whatever was called "develop" until the idea of a magazine was moot. Apple called "programs" "applications" starting with the Mac and stuck to it. It's just a word -- get over it.

stcredzero 14y ago
> If it were called the Apple Hackers' Conference you'd be complaining that Apple was trying to be hip. Maybe there should be an Apple hackers conference for those of us who couldn't get tickets.
- Someone 14y ago
  Bring back http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacHack http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacHack
- podperson 14y ago
  There used to be -- Mac Hack.

threeseed 14y ago

Actually an Engineer should be reserved for those who actually have an Engineering degree. It is a professional designation akin to a Doctor, Lawyer etc.

protomyth 14y ago
In many states, it is reserved for someone with a certificate and there are very strict rules on the words use.

dionidium 14y ago

I never know whether to call myself a programmer, engineer, or developer. I think the reason for this is that it doesn't matter one bit and who gives a shit?

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nicholassmith 14y ago

We're hackers when we aren't developers. Developer means developing a system, hacker implies grinding a result. Sometimes.

mikeash 14y ago

"Engineer" is definitely not a "bureaucratic term". It's an honorable title. The only reason I'm mildly uncomfortable with it is because I don't think I really deserve it, as programming, at least of the sort I do, doesn't match the level of rigor I associate with "engineering".

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