5 ms·

I'd be interested to read more about how much of the Special Forces difference they're born with and how much you can train.

Retric 18y ago
On the deck, the unconscious sailors are rolled on their sides, and as soon as they revive, an instructor shouts again and again: "Are you gonna quit? Are you gonna quit?" Sailors are given 30 seconds to answer or they're kicked out of the program. A lot their "training" seem designed to weed out those who lack specific innate traits. From what I understand the goal is to cull most people as soon as possible and then train those who remain which suggests they focus on innate talents rather than testing people after they have been trained. Which IMO is a good idea, because you don't know what you are going to face in the real world. PS: You see the same idea with a large high school's football camp. The first few days is all about weeding people out based on physical fitness.
- chuckm 18y ago
  A lot their "training" seem designed to weed out those who lack specific innate traits I don't think it's entirely about innate traits. There's a lot of training that occurs before going to some these schools. For example, in the Army you're not eligible to 'try out' for Special Forces until you're an E4 grade (not sure about officers), which may take 1.5 - 3 years to achieve, assuming you enlisted as an E1. Even then a lot of guys spend 2-4 months in special training programs before going and some don't pass until their second or third attempt.
  - falsestprophet 18y ago
    O3 or O2 promotable. So, everyone trying out is very experienced.
  - run4yourlives 18y ago
    In other words, they're controlling for knowledge and training gaps. All that remains is pure talent, really.
  - wumi 18y ago
    unless you get an "18x" contract upon enlistment, at which point you go... basic...AIST (infantry)...airborne...SFAS (special forces selection)
  - gaius 18y ago
    How does that work in Ranger battalions? I'd heard you couldn't get promoted there until you had the tab, seems like a bit of a catch 22!
- scott_s 18y ago
  That still doesn't answer the question - people lead different lives up until military training and high school sports. Personally, I feel I'm better able to handle stress after a significant amount of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and MMA training. This makes me suspect personal experiences make a big difference.
  - gaius 18y ago
    Indeed. A lot of this sort of testing is passed or failed before your seventh birthday, when your personality beings to solidify. You just don't know it 'til later.
aantix 18y ago
I've heard of on-stage actors taking beta blockers in order to calm their nerves (lowers BP) and block sweating (one of the nice side effects of taking a BB). Maybe some of these calming traits can be achieved through medication?
- gaius 18y ago
  DHEA supplementation is available over the counter...
run4yourlives 18y ago
As a former soldier - light infantry, or about as close to "special" you can get without actually getting the little badge - I'd opine that after a certain bit of selection, you can train everyone up to a sufficient level. There isn't much to Army "training". Learn the specifics of weapons and kit, and then point and shoot, really. What separates a good soldier from a mediocre soldier is willpower. Good soldiers make the correct decisions more often because they can think clearly over pain, discomfort and stress - exactly what the article says. SF training put a hyper-focus on this skill. So, to answer you question - pretty much all of it is innate. That has certainly been my experience. Some people are just better at this stuff than others, just like some people are better hockey players than others, even after years of training.
- 10ren 18y ago
  Outliers presents evidence on how hockey players are affected by non-intrinsic factors (their birth month). The excerpt is online somewhere.

Retric 18y ago

On the deck, the unconscious sailors are rolled on their sides, and as soon as they revive, an instructor shouts again and again: "Are you gonna quit? Are you gonna quit?" Sailors are given 30 seconds to answer or they're kicked out of the program. A lot their "training" seem designed to weed out those who lack specific innate traits. From what I understand the goal is to cull most people as soon as possible and then train those who remain which suggests they focus on innate talents rather than testing people after they have been trained. Which IMO is a good idea, because you don't know what you are going to face in the real world. PS: You see the same idea with a large high school's football camp. The first few days is all about weeding people out based on physical fitness.

chuckm 18y ago
A lot their "training" seem designed to weed out those who lack specific innate traits I don't think it's entirely about innate traits. There's a lot of training that occurs before going to some these schools. For example, in the Army you're not eligible to 'try out' for Special Forces until you're an E4 grade (not sure about officers), which may take 1.5 - 3 years to achieve, assuming you enlisted as an E1. Even then a lot of guys spend 2-4 months in special training programs before going and some don't pass until their second or third attempt.
- falsestprophet 18y ago
  O3 or O2 promotable. So, everyone trying out is very experienced.
- run4yourlives 18y ago
  In other words, they're controlling for knowledge and training gaps. All that remains is pure talent, really.
- wumi 18y ago
  unless you get an "18x" contract upon enlistment, at which point you go... basic...AIST (infantry)...airborne...SFAS (special forces selection)
- gaius 18y ago
  How does that work in Ranger battalions? I'd heard you couldn't get promoted there until you had the tab, seems like a bit of a catch 22!
scott_s 18y ago
That still doesn't answer the question - people lead different lives up until military training and high school sports. Personally, I feel I'm better able to handle stress after a significant amount of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and MMA training. This makes me suspect personal experiences make a big difference.
- gaius 18y ago
  Indeed. A lot of this sort of testing is passed or failed before your seventh birthday, when your personality beings to solidify. You just don't know it 'til later.

aantix 18y ago

I've heard of on-stage actors taking beta blockers in order to calm their nerves (lowers BP) and block sweating (one of the nice side effects of taking a BB). Maybe some of these calming traits can be achieved through medication?

gaius 18y ago
DHEA supplementation is available over the counter...

run4yourlives 18y ago

As a former soldier - light infantry, or about as close to "special" you can get without actually getting the little badge - I'd opine that after a certain bit of selection, you can train everyone up to a sufficient level. There isn't much to Army "training". Learn the specifics of weapons and kit, and then point and shoot, really. What separates a good soldier from a mediocre soldier is willpower. Good soldiers make the correct decisions more often because they can think clearly over pain, discomfort and stress - exactly what the article says. SF training put a hyper-focus on this skill. So, to answer you question - pretty much all of it is innate. That has certainly been my experience. Some people are just better at this stuff than others, just like some people are better hockey players than others, even after years of training.

10ren 18y ago
Outliers presents evidence on how hockey players are affected by non-intrinsic factors (their birth month). The excerpt is online somewhere.