4 ms·

Would you find it unreasonable to have a search warrant on every single American's internet activity? As far as I understand it, that is, in effect, what CISPA

Would you find it unreasonable to have a search warrant on every single American's internet activity? As far as I understand it, that is, in effect, what CISPA proposes.

andylei 13y ago
> a search warrant on every single American's internet activity? As far as I understand it, that is, in effect, what CISPA proposes. no. no. not at all. please read the bill. it says nothing of the sort.
- lawnchair_larry 13y ago
  Except that it does, and that's why it's being pushed. See new details uncovered by EPIC: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57581161-38/u.s-gives-big-secret-push-to-internet-surveillance/ http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57581161-38/u.s-gives-big-... CISPA's true motivation is becoming very clear. It's needed to expand a pilot program for dragnet surveillance by the NSA and defense contractors. You know, the same thing they've been doing for ages and getting sued over by the EFF. If you read the letters in support of CISPA by the defense contractors who are lobbying for it and funding Mike Rogers who authored it, they even acknowledge this program by name (it's called the DIB cyber pilot). That's why the bill is so vague, and why they refuse amendments to narrow the scope. It's a get out of jail free card for complicit companies and they can claim virtually anything is related to "security". They can also be wrong, as long as they claim it was "in good faith". It's more or less the "state secrets privilege" equivalent, but for companies cooperating with the "data sharing". It solves nothing, because it's already legal to share threat data. You just have to scrub it of private or protected information. If its protected, it's because we passed a law for something we felt was worth protecting. For CISPA to just undo all of those laws wholesale is outrageous.
  - GHFigs 13y ago
    It's needed to expand a pilot program for dragnet surveillance by the NSA and defense contractors. What horseshit! Even your own link describes the program as applicable to private networks of the participating companies. That's why there's a quote from an email wondering (emphasis mine) "Will the program cover all parts of the company network -- including say day care centers (as mentioned as a question in a [deputies committee meeting]) and what are the policy implications of this?"
    - lawnchair_larry 13y ago
      No, you stopped reading too soon. It's being extended to ISPs, and customer data.
      - GHFigs 13y ago
        I didn't stop reading.
DannyBee 13y ago
This is not what CISPA proposes. It really isn't. There are a lot of advocacy organizations (EPIC, etc) that like to bluster about what it does. Right now EPIC is blustering that it's part of authorizing a secret program. What they didn't tell you is that this is their real goal is to gain possible congressional support for the FOIA request they filed, they are just trying to tie it all together so they can gain support from CISPA haters. A lot of these advocacy orgs that lobby are good in the sense of trying to do what they think is right but they often present pretty extreme (IMHO) interpretations of bills/laws and viewpoints to support this. Full disclosure: I have interned at one of these advocacy orgs before (CDT). It's true the government would be happy if they could monitor everyone's activity, but that isn't CISPA, and crying wolf repeatedly about every bill just makes people less likely to care. If they really wanted to monitor everyone's activity, they'd just do it, and clean up the mess later.
- dontstealmyname 13y ago
  Like passing retroactive bills so its "not illegal". (not saying this one is just that but they have done it in the past so the telcos didn't get sued I believe)
  - DannyBee 13y ago
    Sure, but note that this is completely constitutional, the constitution explicitly grants Congress the right to set the jurisdiction of all courts inferior to the Supreme Court.

Would you find it unreasonable to have a search warrant on every single American's internet activity? As far as I understand it, that is, in effect, what CISPA proposes.

andylei 13y ago

> a search warrant on every single American's internet activity? As far as I understand it, that is, in effect, what CISPA proposes. no. no. not at all. please read the bill. it says nothing of the sort.

lawnchair_larry 13y ago
Except that it does, and that's why it's being pushed. See new details uncovered by EPIC: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57581161-38/u.s-gives-big-secret-push-to-internet-surveillance/ http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57581161-38/u.s-gives-big-... CISPA's true motivation is becoming very clear. It's needed to expand a pilot program for dragnet surveillance by the NSA and defense contractors. You know, the same thing they've been doing for ages and getting sued over by the EFF. If you read the letters in support of CISPA by the defense contractors who are lobbying for it and funding Mike Rogers who authored it, they even acknowledge this program by name (it's called the DIB cyber pilot). That's why the bill is so vague, and why they refuse amendments to narrow the scope. It's a get out of jail free card for complicit companies and they can claim virtually anything is related to "security". They can also be wrong, as long as they claim it was "in good faith". It's more or less the "state secrets privilege" equivalent, but for companies cooperating with the "data sharing". It solves nothing, because it's already legal to share threat data. You just have to scrub it of private or protected information. If its protected, it's because we passed a law for something we felt was worth protecting. For CISPA to just undo all of those laws wholesale is outrageous.
- GHFigs 13y ago
  It's needed to expand a pilot program for dragnet surveillance by the NSA and defense contractors. What horseshit! Even your own link describes the program as applicable to private networks of the participating companies. That's why there's a quote from an email wondering (emphasis mine) "Will the program cover all parts of the company network -- including say day care centers (as mentioned as a question in a [deputies committee meeting]) and what are the policy implications of this?"
  - lawnchair_larry 13y ago
    No, you stopped reading too soon. It's being extended to ISPs, and customer data.
    - GHFigs 13y ago
      I didn't stop reading.

DannyBee 13y ago

This is not what CISPA proposes. It really isn't. There are a lot of advocacy organizations (EPIC, etc) that like to bluster about what it does. Right now EPIC is blustering that it's part of authorizing a secret program. What they didn't tell you is that this is their real goal is to gain possible congressional support for the FOIA request they filed, they are just trying to tie it all together so they can gain support from CISPA haters. A lot of these advocacy orgs that lobby are good in the sense of trying to do what they think is right but they often present pretty extreme (IMHO) interpretations of bills/laws and viewpoints to support this. Full disclosure: I have interned at one of these advocacy orgs before (CDT). It's true the government would be happy if they could monitor everyone's activity, but that isn't CISPA, and crying wolf repeatedly about every bill just makes people less likely to care. If they really wanted to monitor everyone's activity, they'd just do it, and clean up the mess later.

dontstealmyname 13y ago
Like passing retroactive bills so its "not illegal". (not saying this one is just that but they have done it in the past so the telcos didn't get sued I believe)
- DannyBee 13y ago
  Sure, but note that this is completely constitutional, the constitution explicitly grants Congress the right to set the jurisdiction of all courts inferior to the Supreme Court.