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>If their revolutionary spirit and humane conscious suddenly spring to life, it's only because Dubai represents the oriental Other This is not exactly correct.

by jan_g 18y ago

>If their revolutionary spirit and humane conscious suddenly spring to life, it's only because Dubai represents the oriental Other This is not exactly correct. There's nothing sudden about Dubai criticism (foreign worker exploitation, etc.). The criticism existed for a decade, at the very least. It is true however, that many people are ignorant and weren't aware of "Dubai issue" until now that it's gone mainstream in journalism.

mahmud 18y ago
"The criticism existed for a decade, at the very least. It is true however, that many people are ignorant and weren't aware of "Dubai issue" until now that it's gone mainstream in journalism." If "Dubai's issue" has been known for at least a decade, then why did Western dignitaries, businessmen and the collective Judeo-Christian/Capitalist/Democratic/Western/etc elite decide to ignore, and instead choose to buy homes in artificial islands, shop, work, ski and golf in the "gulf paradise" that was apparently built with "slave South Asian labor"? To this day, it's the White Man that's edging the colored laborers in terms of pay: http://www.arabianbusiness.com/research/salary-survey-report-2009/feature/548493-brit-expats-earn-double-that-of-indian-counterparts http://www.arabianbusiness.com/research/salary-survey-report... It's only when the paycheck bounces that the Westerner comes to realize the error of his ways and cries "Equalité". To this day, Google, the darling of your new economy and entrepreneurial spirit is trying to get sponsored by Dubai police to filter their search results: http://www.ameinfo.com/192326.html http://www.ameinfo.com/192326.html That's your "Do No Evil". Your words, as Westerners, are worth nothing. Pathetic. [Edit: and yes, I would _love_ to get some disagreeing remarks, along with the obligatory head-in-the-sand down vote. I can't wait to tear someone's feel-good opposition a new one. Hypocrisy has no leg to stand on, and I am more than happy to show you Western hypocrisy crawl on its belly like the wet, spineless worm it is.]
- sho 18y ago
  No, don't hold back Mahmud, tell us what you really think ..
  - mahmud 18y ago
    What I think is this: People are full of shit, everywhere. I distrust faux-activism, any sort of righteous indignation, and I specifically distrust appeal to morality in the "collective". No group is better than any other group, long live the individual. So now, sho, can I roll you your own joint or do you wanna take drags from mine?
    - sho 18y ago
      Look, I mostly agree with you. I give a pretty short shrift to selective outrage and fickle talking-point moral indignation also. However, the fact remains, regardless of who raises the point, that the Dubai government is complicit in wide-spread, institutionalised abuse of its most vulnerable working class, and they should stop. Now are you going to argue with that, or perhaps claim that I have no standing due to the crimes of my distant ancestors and/or corrupt countrymen? Because I don't think that makes any difference at all. We consider every case on its merits. What BAE or whoever did was wrong and hopefully they will be held to account. That affects the current topic not a whit. Beyond that I don't even know what you're trying to say. That the world sucks and people are hypocrites? Well, yes, we can all take that as read, what's next? "Your words, as Westerners, are worth nothing." They are worth as much as anyone else's. What was that about the supremacy of the individual again?
- jan_g 18y ago
  What you are saying is not true. If some individuals (like one billionth of Earth population) decided to buy, shop, play golf, etc. in Dubai that does not mean that everyone on Earth collectively ignored/supported/whatever some medieval regimes in middle east. Generalization is seldom appropriate and certainly not in this case.
  - mahmud 18y ago
    "What you are saying is not true. If some individuals (like one billionth of Earth population) decided to buy, shop, play golf, etc. in Dubai that does not mean that everyone on Earth collectively ignored/supported/whatever some medieval regimes in middle east." Except it's not individuals. It's your governments, US and UK, that are propping up every tyrannical backward regime in the Arab world, not to mention minion usurping entities like Israel. The Petrodollar pwns your faux-democracies and you KNOW it :-) 100 years ago the Westerners went into the "middle east" to capitalize on arab oil and take advantage of the illiterate Bedouin. Remnants of this is still seen in Western culture, the caricature of the stupid wealthy arab: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qd1D9T1koCI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qd1D9T1koCI Alas, that's not how it turned out to be. Leaders of the free world are not wasting time bowing to oil Sheikhs, kissing rings and holding hands (need I link to the recent BO controversy?) Bin Laden's family were escorted out of the USA by the secret service few days after 911. British company, BAE, was caught red-handed in bribery to close a multibillion dolars arms deal with Saudi Arabia, and the Sheikhs threatened dire consequences if the UK government prosecuted BAE and got their way. The West and its values are a _bitch_ for hire, and a very cheap one at that. And you know what I think of them when they cry foul wrt to "human rights"? I just think they haven't been paid yet to keep quiet :-) [Edit: P.S. How come I'm the only one here posting links and substantiating evidence? you guys are just content with gut-feeling? ;-]
    - jan_g 18y ago
      I don't need additional evidence for stuff that is common knowledge. Certainly, what you say about western nations' exploitations in the past (and present) is true. That does not make criticism of Dubai untrue or unnecessary.
raheemm 18y ago
The reason I distrust HR criticism by Western media is because there is no consistency in criticism. Some countries are ignored, while some are not. To me, it seems more like a fad to get readership, etc. Also, discussion about HR seems to conveniently ignore historical context. Many times the West criticizes others about HR, but its own record only improved in the last 30 years. And, when it comes to economic interests, HR are conveniently and quickly ignored.

by jan_g 18y ago

mahmud 18y ago

"The criticism existed for a decade, at the very least. It is true however, that many people are ignorant and weren't aware of "Dubai issue" until now that it's gone mainstream in journalism." If "Dubai's issue" has been known for at least a decade, then why did Western dignitaries, businessmen and the collective Judeo-Christian/Capitalist/Democratic/Western/etc elite decide to ignore, and instead choose to buy homes in artificial islands, shop, work, ski and golf in the "gulf paradise" that was apparently built with "slave South Asian labor"? To this day, it's the White Man that's edging the colored laborers in terms of pay: http://www.arabianbusiness.com/research/salary-survey-report-2009/feature/548493-brit-expats-earn-double-that-of-indian-counterparts http://www.arabianbusiness.com/research/salary-survey-report... It's only when the paycheck bounces that the Westerner comes to realize the error of his ways and cries "Equalité". To this day, Google, the darling of your new economy and entrepreneurial spirit is trying to get sponsored by Dubai police to filter their search results: http://www.ameinfo.com/192326.html http://www.ameinfo.com/192326.html That's your "Do No Evil". Your words, as Westerners, are worth nothing. Pathetic. [Edit: and yes, I would _love_ to get some disagreeing remarks, along with the obligatory head-in-the-sand down vote. I can't wait to tear someone's feel-good opposition a new one. Hypocrisy has no leg to stand on, and I am more than happy to show you Western hypocrisy crawl on its belly like the wet, spineless worm it is.]

sho 18y ago
No, don't hold back Mahmud, tell us what you really think ..
- mahmud 18y ago
  What I think is this: People are full of shit, everywhere. I distrust faux-activism, any sort of righteous indignation, and I specifically distrust appeal to morality in the "collective". No group is better than any other group, long live the individual. So now, sho, can I roll you your own joint or do you wanna take drags from mine?
  - sho 18y ago
    Look, I mostly agree with you. I give a pretty short shrift to selective outrage and fickle talking-point moral indignation also. However, the fact remains, regardless of who raises the point, that the Dubai government is complicit in wide-spread, institutionalised abuse of its most vulnerable working class, and they should stop. Now are you going to argue with that, or perhaps claim that I have no standing due to the crimes of my distant ancestors and/or corrupt countrymen? Because I don't think that makes any difference at all. We consider every case on its merits. What BAE or whoever did was wrong and hopefully they will be held to account. That affects the current topic not a whit. Beyond that I don't even know what you're trying to say. That the world sucks and people are hypocrites? Well, yes, we can all take that as read, what's next? "Your words, as Westerners, are worth nothing." They are worth as much as anyone else's. What was that about the supremacy of the individual again?
jan_g 18y ago
What you are saying is not true. If some individuals (like one billionth of Earth population) decided to buy, shop, play golf, etc. in Dubai that does not mean that everyone on Earth collectively ignored/supported/whatever some medieval regimes in middle east. Generalization is seldom appropriate and certainly not in this case.
- mahmud 18y ago
  "What you are saying is not true. If some individuals (like one billionth of Earth population) decided to buy, shop, play golf, etc. in Dubai that does not mean that everyone on Earth collectively ignored/supported/whatever some medieval regimes in middle east." Except it's not individuals. It's your governments, US and UK, that are propping up every tyrannical backward regime in the Arab world, not to mention minion usurping entities like Israel. The Petrodollar pwns your faux-democracies and you KNOW it :-) 100 years ago the Westerners went into the "middle east" to capitalize on arab oil and take advantage of the illiterate Bedouin. Remnants of this is still seen in Western culture, the caricature of the stupid wealthy arab: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qd1D9T1koCI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qd1D9T1koCI Alas, that's not how it turned out to be. Leaders of the free world are not wasting time bowing to oil Sheikhs, kissing rings and holding hands (need I link to the recent BO controversy?) Bin Laden's family were escorted out of the USA by the secret service few days after 911. British company, BAE, was caught red-handed in bribery to close a multibillion dolars arms deal with Saudi Arabia, and the Sheikhs threatened dire consequences if the UK government prosecuted BAE and got their way. The West and its values are a _bitch_ for hire, and a very cheap one at that. And you know what I think of them when they cry foul wrt to "human rights"? I just think they haven't been paid yet to keep quiet :-) [Edit: P.S. How come I'm the only one here posting links and substantiating evidence? you guys are just content with gut-feeling? ;-]
  - jan_g 18y ago
    I don't need additional evidence for stuff that is common knowledge. Certainly, what you say about western nations' exploitations in the past (and present) is true. That does not make criticism of Dubai untrue or unnecessary.

raheemm 18y ago

The reason I distrust HR criticism by Western media is because there is no consistency in criticism. Some countries are ignored, while some are not. To me, it seems more like a fad to get readership, etc. Also, discussion about HR seems to conveniently ignore historical context. Many times the West criticizes others about HR, but its own record only improved in the last 30 years. And, when it comes to economic interests, HR are conveniently and quickly ignored.