6 ms·

There's so many competitors entering the market, it will be hard for anybody to charge much more than $5. Plus, almost everybody is using the same set of langua

There's so many competitors entering the market, it will be hard for anybody to charge much more than $5. Plus, almost everybody is using the same set of language data, so it is difficult to differentiate. There are already tons of completely free hobbyist- and university- created tools available if you know where to look. Plus, textbook publishers generally provide a suite of (sometimes free) apps to complement their textbooks. Luckily, I don't think there is any place for ad-financed products (ads are too distracting when you are trying to memorize stuff like this), so there won't be many free commercial systems. I am building something very similar to this. I have to say I am very impressed with what Skritter has done so far.

patio11 18y ago
There's so many competitors entering the market, it will be hard for anybody to charge much more than $5 Are you acquainted with Rosetta Stone? They sell language learning software in the "couple of hundred dollars" range. And they're pretty freaking big. it is difficult to differentiate People always tell me that about my product. It isn't true for me, and my product is substantially more boring and smaller in scope than learning the key to accessing the history/culture/economic potential of China. A short list of points to differentiate on would be who you sell to, what level of learners you target, what focus of learners you target, visual design, etc etc.
- briansmith 18y ago
  You were actually part of the inspiration for me getting into this market; I even have "bingo card creator" in my notebook. There are definitely many interesting aspects of this market. I don't think it is impossible to differentiate or I wouldn't be in it. But, I really do think that prices for formal educational books, materials, and software are all heading towards $0 fast. Rosetta Stone really has executed brilliantly in its segment of the market. It sales and marketing effort has been top-notch. It is also interesting to see how they are attempting to cross over from do-it-yourself language learners to traditional language learners. I would love to know what they are charging schools for their software.
  - nwinter 18y ago
    A lot, I think. Some of the libraries we called had switched to Mango because Rosetta Stone had become too expensive.
lacker 18y ago
You've probably already thought about this, but the corporate market is pretty large for language learning. I work for a big company with offices in many countries so they strongly encourage learning other languages. And the corporate expense department won't blink an eye at spending a few hundred dollars for language learning software. If you get a reputation for being the best product in your space, it is worth quite a lot more than $5 per customer.
- briansmith 18y ago
  There is definitely a great difference in the price that customers are willing to pay in different segments of the market--especially K-12 vs. college vs. non-traditional learners.
nwinter 18y ago
Ah, yes, you're right. Perhaps I'll also say that there aren't a lot of effective competitors, especially for Chinese writing. We are making our own set of language data, which is a lot of work but which does help differentiate because students can see we have their textbook. I always wonder how similar "very similar" is. Of course I'm curious. We haven't seen anything that (we think) is similar yet.
- briansmith 18y ago
  Right now, my product is notably different than your product. But, I think the natural evolution of my product, combined with the natural evolution of your product, means they will end up being very similar. There's lots of SLA software for years, but also I noticed a lot of new SLA software that is pretty slick. I think there's going to be a lot of "effective" competition soon.
  - dbul 18y ago
    Yep, including one of the startups I'm working on. Good luck to you. がんばって。 edit: p.s. our idea was rejected by yc, so maybe it is a terrible idea. we still think it is great which is why we are working on it.
    - nwinter 18y ago
      Ours did too. Well, it's probably more fair to say that it was us and not the idea. We didn't have a lot going for us on paper.
      - dbul 18y ago
        "And in actual fact it is very rare to hear a good idea from a group we don't want to fund." -- pg http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=548299 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=548299 My co-founder noted that the rejection email contradicted this, but I'm sure there is some there is an explanation such as we are bad at selecting successful startups. It is tough to really know for sure, because while some of the groups selected fail, some of the ones who ought to have been selected will never succeed on their own when they may have with some guidance. So don't blame yourself, there are two parties involved and neither are God, just human.

patio11 18y ago

There's so many competitors entering the market, it will be hard for anybody to charge much more than $5 Are you acquainted with Rosetta Stone? They sell language learning software in the "couple of hundred dollars" range. And they're pretty freaking big. it is difficult to differentiate People always tell me that about my product. It isn't true for me, and my product is substantially more boring and smaller in scope than learning the key to accessing the history/culture/economic potential of China. A short list of points to differentiate on would be who you sell to, what level of learners you target, what focus of learners you target, visual design, etc etc.

briansmith 18y ago
You were actually part of the inspiration for me getting into this market; I even have "bingo card creator" in my notebook. There are definitely many interesting aspects of this market. I don't think it is impossible to differentiate or I wouldn't be in it. But, I really do think that prices for formal educational books, materials, and software are all heading towards $0 fast. Rosetta Stone really has executed brilliantly in its segment of the market. It sales and marketing effort has been top-notch. It is also interesting to see how they are attempting to cross over from do-it-yourself language learners to traditional language learners. I would love to know what they are charging schools for their software.
- nwinter 18y ago
  A lot, I think. Some of the libraries we called had switched to Mango because Rosetta Stone had become too expensive.

lacker 18y ago

You've probably already thought about this, but the corporate market is pretty large for language learning. I work for a big company with offices in many countries so they strongly encourage learning other languages. And the corporate expense department won't blink an eye at spending a few hundred dollars for language learning software. If you get a reputation for being the best product in your space, it is worth quite a lot more than $5 per customer.

briansmith 18y ago
There is definitely a great difference in the price that customers are willing to pay in different segments of the market--especially K-12 vs. college vs. non-traditional learners.

nwinter 18y ago

Ah, yes, you're right. Perhaps I'll also say that there aren't a lot of effective competitors, especially for Chinese writing. We are making our own set of language data, which is a lot of work but which does help differentiate because students can see we have their textbook. I always wonder how similar "very similar" is. Of course I'm curious. We haven't seen anything that (we think) is similar yet.

briansmith 18y ago
Right now, my product is notably different than your product. But, I think the natural evolution of my product, combined with the natural evolution of your product, means they will end up being very similar. There's lots of SLA software for years, but also I noticed a lot of new SLA software that is pretty slick. I think there's going to be a lot of "effective" competition soon.
- dbul 18y ago
  Yep, including one of the startups I'm working on. Good luck to you. がんばって。 edit: p.s. our idea was rejected by yc, so maybe it is a terrible idea. we still think it is great which is why we are working on it.
  - nwinter 18y ago
    Ours did too. Well, it's probably more fair to say that it was us and not the idea. We didn't have a lot going for us on paper.
    - dbul 18y ago
      "And in actual fact it is very rare to hear a good idea from a group we don't want to fund." -- pg http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=548299 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=548299 My co-founder noted that the rejection email contradicted this, but I'm sure there is some there is an explanation such as we are bad at selecting successful startups. It is tough to really know for sure, because while some of the groups selected fail, some of the ones who ought to have been selected will never succeed on their own when they may have with some guidance. So don't blame yourself, there are two parties involved and neither are God, just human.